Disclaimer: Please note that none of the information contained in these files is meant to be professional information. Consult your vet, attorney or other professional for their advice. To: equinerescue@imagicomm.com From: Heather Nightingale Subject: EQ-ResQ: Severely Underweight Rescue Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 09:26:38 -0800 (PST) > >Hi, I have a severely underweight and malnurished > >rescue coming in within the next few days. I don't > >have all the details yet but so far know that he > may > >possible be older (no one knows) as he is missing > his > >back molars and the rest of his teeth are in bad > >shape. So, he is probably well into his 20's but > >don't know for sure. I guess he was left out in a > >pasture with no feed or anything. The vet that > looked > >at him said to keep him on a sr pelleted diet. > Anyone > >have any recommendations or suggestions on what > they > >do to help bring a horse's weight up? I have dealt > >with underweight horses but nothing this severe. > He > >was described as skin attached to bones. Any input > >would be great! Thank you! > > > >Heather ========== Heather Nightingale ====== ============================================================ To: equinerescue@imagicomm.com From: horsesaver Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: Severely Underweight Rescue Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 12:59:22 -0500 Off the top of my head i would believe you should soak the feed, this horse might choke. also skin and bones, someone correct me if i wrong, but i believe he should have several small feedings a day. his system is not use to digesting food. karenp.in ny. > > >Hi, I have a severely underweight and malnurished > > >rescue coming in within the next few days. I don't > > >have all the details yet but so far know that he > ========== horsesaver ====== ============================================================ To: equinerescue@imagicomm.com From: CC40058@aol.com Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 13:55:02 EST Subject: EQ-ResQ: Severely Underweight Rescue We go with a mixture of sweet feed, cracked corn, crimped oats, a little beet pulp (soaked) and a couple of scoops of Calf Manna, plus all the hay or grass (depending on the season) he can eat. The manna has it's own scoop which is very small. If so thin, I will try to get him on his feet for a week or 2 then go with the wormers. I go with half strengths paste (not Quest) every other day about 2 or 3 times to see how he takes it, then go with full strength if he is holding up well. If he is not, I fatten up a little more, then try again. When he gains his strength back, definitely cut back on the manna...2 scoops are for a high performance horse. If feeding hay, you may need to watch him because depending on how bad his teeth are, you could have to soak even the hay to prevent choke. This formula may be a little unconventional, but it has worked for us over and over. We got one very old bag of bones in September that we were afraid we could not get in condition fast enough for her to survive the winter. She still needs some weight, but has enough to be doing very well, and she is still beefing up. Caroline Kentuckiana Equine and Animal Rescue, Inc. ...dedicated to the animals CC40058@aol.com or Kyianaequ@aol.com http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/NonProfitBlvd/kyianaequ/ ========== CC40058@aol.com ====== ============================================================ To: equinerescue@imagicomm.com From: Hdanes2@aol.com Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: Severely Underweight Rescue Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 14:32:42 EST I rescued a severely underweight horse recently. He is also in his twenties and had severely bad teeth. First thing we did was have his teeth fixed. we put him on a mixture of food we made ourselves. I would give him a senior feed mixed with some cracked corn(easy for them to digest) some alfalfa pellets for bulk and we used a feed called Farr Legacy, a small amount of this a day will help put weight on. Give him a good grassy hay. I would grain him twice a day, and start off very very slow. I have had my horse for two+ months now and he has gained 200 pounds and acts as if he were 10 yers old he is a completely different horse from when we first got him. He is finally happy. Good Luck and please keep me updated. Heather ========== Hdanes2@aol.com ====== ============================================================ To: equinerescue@imagicomm.com From: Hossinroun@aol.com Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: Severely Underweight Rescue Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 14:47:35 EST Old horses with no teeth usually can't chew hay or even grass sometimes. So that is out. Alfalfa cubes are the same even if you soak them. I use beet pulp first, soaked overnight and then 3 feedings a day if not more and I use Horse Chow 100 because it's a complete feed and it's also large pellets so soak them and feed immediately. Liquid vitamins are a good choice too. Old horses even with teeth can't digest grain, crimped or not, so check his dropping to see if there is any oats or corn in it. Corn is also a good source of heat, if he can digest it. Good luck, Debbie ========== Hossinroun@aol.com ====== ============================================================ To: equinerescue@imagicomm.com From: CC40058@aol.com Subject: EQ-ResQ: RE: Severely Underweight Rescue Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 15:20:24 EST Good point on the chewing. When she gets this guy in, she will have to feel him out before she can really determine his status. We have been lucky enough to have gotten old gals in who, even though their teeth were pitiful (and those teeth need care as soon as possible) they chowed down on what we have given, and digested it well. She has a vet advising her, and plus with our various inputs, she will just have to find what works for her and the horse. Caroline Kentuckiana Equine and Animal Rescue, Inc. ...dedicated to the animals CC40058@aol.com or Kyianaequ@aol.com http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/NonProfitBlvd/kyianaequ/ ========== CC40058@aol.com ====== ============================================================ To: equinerescue@imagicomm.com From: Ale52292@aol.com Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: Severely Underweight Rescue Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 16:34:35 EST Has anyone heard or tried the Weight Builder?? It is a weight supplement thet has worked wonders a horse that a stable I work with got in. Weight Builder, Tube worming, and a mineral supplement ( Mina Vite) mixed with 6 feedings a day has put almost 100lb's on this horse!! Also you have to watch what he is drinking!! With the introduction of grain and hay/grass they might absorb all of his "moisture". We tried warming his water and putting molassas in it. Also GROMING!!! Brush Brush Brush!! Brushing him with a soft brush or even a cloth will increase his corculation and help him gain faster. Good Luck!! Alexis ========== Ale52292@aol.com ====== ============================================================ To: equinerescue@imagicomm.com From: SPetty1620@aol.com Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: Severely Underweight Rescue Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 17:23:08 EST What it comes down to is add calories and fat. You can spend a fortune or you can spend very little. Look at the label. If it is low in fat and calories, then it is the persons imagination that it put weight on a skinny horse that would just not gain weight any other way. (My vet still cannot figure out why people recommend Beet Pulp for this use, as it is very low in the very things that would tend to put weight on a horse. It has it's uses, but If it adds weight, it sure does not do it the traditional way. It is a very low fat food.) Rice bran pellets are great for putting weight on a horse, ask your vet, and they also don't tend to cause colic. If all of the medical problems such as teeth and worms have been dealt with, use a high fat and very palatable feed. Also, I never use whole grains, sweetfeed, etc on an old or skinny horse. Look at their poop! Now you know where that expensive grain is going. I use a pellet on all of my horses, and if they don't like it, I add just a little sweetfeed. Most of them love it. I pride myself on being able to fatten a horse. I have fattened horses in 3 months that others could not fatten in 2 years. It is my specialty, so to speak. :) Sharelle ========== SPetty1620@aol.com ====== ============================================================ To: equinerescue@imagicomm.com From: horsesaver Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: Severely Underweight Rescue Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 17:41:30 -0500 Also you can add a little corn oil, don't know if that was mentioned yet. karenp.in ny. >What it comes down to is add calories and fat. You can spend a fortune or you >can spend very little. ========== horsesaver ====== ============================================================ To: equinerescue@imagicomm.com From: SPetty1620@aol.com Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: Severely Underweight Rescue Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 17:53:36 EST Stay away from those low fat feeds. Lots of people think that sweetfeed has more calories than pellets. Not true! It just depends on the feed. Read the label. I feed two different pellets. One has a 12% protein and a 5% fat for most of the horses. The other has a 14% protein and a 6% fat for a mare getting ready to foal. I will also feed that to her foal. These are high fat contents for horsefeed, compared to most regular pellets, sweetfeed and dry mix. Strategy (Purina) has a high fat content, at 6%. The rice bran pellets I buy have a 10% fat content. Read your labels, just like you would do if you were trying to lose or gain weight. Also, skinny horses don't need high protein. I am amazed when I see a skinny horse on high protein, low fat. 10-12% protein is fine for most horses. Adding unneeded protein only increases the risk of health problems. Also, feed more often, 3 or 4 times a day will help just as much as increasing the feed a little. A horse has a small stomach and can only digest so much food, regardless of how much you give him, at any given meal. So, much of the food goes undigested if you give him too much at a time. He'll probably eat it, that doesn't mean he is utilizing it. Corn is another high fat food, but I get better results with rice bran pellets. Corn is harder to digest. Sharelle ========== SPetty1620@aol.com ====== ============================================================ To: equinerescue@imagicomm.com From: Ale52292@aol.com Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: Severely Underweight Rescue Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 19:03:37 EST Demand is a pellated feed and it is high in fat. Also I have found that in my area the lower the protein the higher the fat ex.. 12%- 1.5 fat, 10%- 2.0 fat. But demand is a high fat feed that is in a pellated form. Alexis ========== Ale52292@aol.com ====== ============================================================ To: equinerescue@imagicomm.com From: dlinkous@radix.net Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: Severely Underweight Rescue Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 19:59:28 -0500 >people recommend Beet Pulp for this use, as it is very low in the very things >that would tend to put weight on a horse. It has it's uses, but If it adds >weight, it sure does not do it the traditional way. It is a very low fat >food.) http://shady-acres.com/susan/beetpulp.shtml This is a great explanation of beet pulp in the horse's diet. It has no fat, and almost no protein, and actually very little sugar too (though some manufacturers add molassas to it). What it does have is a lot of fiber. >From the page above: "At 10% crude protein and 18% crude fiber, beet pulp sits right on the edge between being a forage and an energy feed. Most nutritionists will refer to and utilize beet pulp as a forage, and therein lies much of the advantage." From her chart, you can see that beet pulp has the equivilent amount of energy (Mcals/kg) as alfalfa hay, but is much easier to chew and to digest. So what does this amount to? An easy way to add much needed fiber (keeps the gut moving!) as well as energy to the diet for horses that cannot chew easily. Helpful if fed frequently to horses that quid and therefore cannot digest hay for forage. Do read the page, becuase she gives a lot more information. Another interesting and quite recent (within 2 years I believe) way of putting weight on starved horses is feeding free choice, straight alfalfa. Sounds horrible, but U.C. Davis did a study in which this worked very well. Additionally, alfalfa is a thin stemmed hay and easier to chew than most grass hays. There is a site somewhere (I lost the bookmark) for this study. Of course, anytime you have a horse that can't chew and whose teeth are beyond repair (I don't think they make plates for horses' mouths... dlinkous@radix.net ====== ============================================================ To: equinerescue@imagicomm.com From: SPetty1620@aol.com Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: Severely Underweight Rescue Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 23:10:18 EST << Another interesting and quite recent (within 2 years I believe) way of putting weight on starved horses is feeding free choice, straight alfalfa. >> Although anything will put weight on them if you feed enough of it, straight, free choice alfalfa would scare me to death. High protein and low fat, not what a horse needs to gain weight. I wonder about some of these studies. The sudden increase in protein can sure colic one too. I speak from past experience. I would rather stick with a safer method, such as rice bran pellets added to a 5 - 6% fat pelleted diet. (Or other high fat, easily digested feed.) The beet pulp and even a little alfalfa would not hurt anything because they do need the roughage, but it's like comparing veggies to cheese, when you want something to put on weight. I like fast results, but I want it to be safe as well. Sharelle ========== SPetty1620@aol.com ====== ============================================================ Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 23:29:04 -0700 (MST) To: equinerescue@imagicomm.com From: Pat Calloway Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: Severely Underweight Rescue We had a discussion on this back in August of 1998 and I had archived the discussion in the Rescue List Archives. Here's a direct link to it: http://crt-stable.com/equinerescue/feed.txt I'm saving the notes from the current discussion and will archive them too. I do want to point out (probably unnecessary, but what the heck!) that if you have a horse who is severely underweight that you should be working with your vet in rehabbing him/her and discuss changes in feed, supplements, etc first. Most will tell you what they think about it even if it's that they don't think it's much good (that's where I ask my question of - "well, will it HURT the horse to get it?). These discussions give you a good jumping off point for further discussions with your chosen trusted professional. Pat Calloway, Equine Rescue Listowner epona@concentric.net (AZ) http://www.crt-stable.com/equinerescue ========== Pat Calloway ====== ============================================================ To: equinerescue@imagicomm.com From: "slyshot" Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: Severely Underweight Rescue Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 20:46:01 -0500 << Another interesting and quite recent (within 2 years I believe) way of > putting weight on starved horses is feeding free choice, straight alfalfa. >> This has been mentioned here several times over the months. I wanted to 'ring in' with what Sharelle said: we do not use alfalfa to put weight on horses. Our experience has been that it is too rich for a nutrition-starved horse. Since most of our rescue arrivals are not 'ours', in the sense that they're often tied up in court cases, we must handle them with utmost care to insure that we don't do anything to further endanger them. We took in 11 horses several years ago who were so poorly nourished that we started them on some crappy hay that had been donated - not bad/moldy, just not the type of hay we would typically feed - and gradually shifted the ratio of crappy-hay-to-good-hay until the horses were stabilized enough so their systems wouldn't be shocked. These horses were also started on miniscule amounts of watered, pelleted, complete feed, which was gradually increased. While we would love to see our rescues quickly bounce back to the picture of health we have to consider the entire horse, not just the skin and bones. Giving the horse's body time to renew the bone density and muscling and other systems to support the weight we're adding is just as important as adding the weight itself. Klondike (Cris May) Days End Farm Horse Rescue (MD) http://www.defhr.org ========== "slyshot" ====== ============================================================ To: equinerescue@imagicomm.com From: dlinkous@radix.net Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: Severely Underweight Rescue Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 01:40:27 -0500 I found the report on the UC Davis study I mentioned (it had moved). I am not recommending anyone adopt the results of the study -- they are just that, a study. But it is interesting as far as it goes. Here is the URL, http://equinevetnet.com/vetcare/newsletters/index.html and then use the menu on the left to click on "The Horse Report", which is the UC Davis publication. After it loads (a little while) scroll down the right frame about 1/3 of the way to Vol. 16, No.3, July 1998, and the article is titled Rehabilitating the Starved Horse. Diana ========== dlinkous@radix.net ====== ============================================================ Disclaimer: Please note that none of the information contained in these files is meant to be professional information. Consult your vet, attorney or other professional for their advice.