DISCLAIMER: Not meant to be legal or medical advice. Please seek the advice of a professional if necessary. Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 13:56:21 -0700 To: equinerescue@MyList.net, Cris May From: Pat Calloway Subject: EQ-ResQ: CLASS: Facilities Doing some snippage on Cris' post since some stuff was not discussed at all or in any depth & I think that some could be quite useful, so I'm taking the liberty of putting in a new subject line and just snipping down to the pertinent areas. At 09:29 AM 8/4/98 -0400, Cris May wrote: >Physical facilities (barn, land, fencing, housing) >The Maryland Dept. of Agriculture asked Days End (DEF) to formulate the following guidelines for use in licensing rescue facilities: > >A rescue facility >~ must have the capability to accommodate the individual feeding of all horses and/or animals entrusted to their care. >~ must have adequate space and adequate fencing to accommodate the number of horses and/or animals in residence without unnecessary injury, and to permit adequate exercise. >~ A rescue facility engaging in the rescue of stallions (unaltered males), must have appropriate facilities necessary to prohibit needless breeding and provide adequate care, maintenance and exercise. > Okay, so this sounds great and very logical. Would you say that most rescue's facilities/operations are set up in this manner or do they tend to be a bit crowded? Individual feeding sounds like it could be hard in some areas/setups - unless you just allow a few horses in to feed at a time (think of a few private horse owners that I know). Pat Calloway, Equine Rescue/Creatures Listowner epona@concentric.net (AZ) http://pages.prodigy.com/equinerescue/home.htm http://pages.prodigy.com/equinerescue/creature.htm ============================================================ Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 20:43:16 -0400 From: Mike & Chris Smith To: equinerescue@MyList.net, Pat Calloway Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: CLASS: Facilities Pat Calloway wrote: > >~ must have the capability to accommodate the individual feeding of all > horses and/or animals entrusted to their care. ERL does not "bring in" every individual for feeding. If a group of horses get along together fairly well, and are easy keepers, they are fed in buckets hung along the fence, spaced far enough apart to avoid competition. If the "low man on the totem pole" isn't getting enough, then he is brought in for private dining. Anyone who needs meds or special diet comes in, of course. We have been in the situation several times where we've had to feed "in shifts," especially during the winter. Fill all the stalls, feed those horses, turn them back out, and fill the stalls with the next group. Then all are hayed in the fields unless they need to stay in for some reason. Every animal, though, is fed something at 8AM and 4PM (religiously...regularly scheduled feedings help prevent colic), even the very easy keepers on good pasture--we want every single animal to make an appearance to make sure it is doing well. We use square-baled hay that is seperated into flakes a little more than two horse-lengths apart in the field. (Make more flakes than horses so the less aggressive ones can get some too.) Besides walking about the field to look at everyone, this allows better monitoring of amounts being eaten. > > >~ must have adequate space and adequate fencing to accommodate the number > of horses and/or animals in residence without unnecessary injury, and to > permit adequate exercise. We don't have enough stalls to bring everyone in at once, but we do have about 65 acres (leased). But we still have to be careful about not overcrowding the fields and running into behavior problems in a large group. We also don't want the pastures to get overgrazed. > >~ A rescue facility engaging in the rescue of stallions (unaltered males), > must have appropriate facilities necessary to prohibit needless breeding > and provide adequate care, maintenance and exercise. All stallions are gelded ASAP. If that may be a day or to, he is kept in the quaratine stall (Which he would be in anyway as a new arrival) and may have the paddock lined with heavy-duty portable panels. Chris -- Equine Rescue League, Inc Leesburg, VA http://equinenet.org/erl/ ============================================================ Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 22:39:08 -0400 From: cabblcf Organization: Equine Placement Network http://members.tripod.com/~SueE/HB1029.html To: equinerescue@MyList.net, Pat Calloway Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: CLASS: Facilities > >The Maryland Dept. of Agriculture asked Days End (DEF) to formulate the following guidelines for use in licensing rescue facilities: > > > >A rescue facility > >~ must have adequate space and adequate fencing to accommodate the numberof horses and/or animals in residence without unnecessary injury, and to permit adequate exercise. OK, what is adequate? Who decides? > > >~ A rescue facility engaging in the rescue of stallions (unaltered males),must have appropriate facilities necessary to prohibit needless breeding Needless? IMO rescue facilities should NOT be involved in ANY breeding. So what is needless? This appears to give rescues a loophole if they decide to breed some horses. > and provide adequate care, maintenance and exercise. Again what is adequate? Chris ============================================================ Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 20:54:32 -0700 To: equinerescue@MyList.net From: Pat Calloway Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: CLASS: Facilities At 10:39 PM 8/16/98 -0400, cabblcf wrote: > >> >~ must have adequate space and adequate fencing to accommodate the numberof horses and/or animals in residence without unnecessary injury, and to permit adequate exercise. > >OK, what is adequate? Who decides? >> >> >~ A rescue facility engaging in the rescue of stallions (unaltered males),must have appropriate facilities necessary to prohibit needless breeding > >Needless? IMO rescue facilities should NOT be involved in ANY breeding. >So what is needless? This appears to give rescues a loophole if they >decide to breed some horses. > >> and provide adequate care, maintenance and exercise. > >Again what is adequate? > Good point, Chris. What is adequate to state and federal authorities is often considered inadequate by many horsemen. My guess is that each rescue must look at state/local/federal (and any other applicable) laws and make sure that they are in compliance with them as an absolute *minimum* then consult with expert horsemen to be sure that they are doing the best for their animals to treat them in a humane matter while doing whatever rehabilitation necessary in a cost effective manner. And adequate is going to vary from area to area. We don't have a lot of barns in the desert in Arizona - it's a lot of pens/pastures with covered shelters and pipe corrals. Someone from the east where it snows a lot might look at horse accomodations and shudder, but considering that our summers are terribly hot (100-115 during the day, in the 80's at night) and our winters are mild, these do generally work out best for the horses as there is plenty of air circulation. How many horses should be kept in an area of - say one acre? Would depend on the horse's sex, age, disposition, breed (minis vs regular horse), zoning laws, etc. What do you guys use as a general guideline? What do the rest of you consider **adequate**? Perhaps two definitions might be in order - one as a bare minimum to be workable, another as what would be preferable (we'll forget about the fancy barns a la Brookside Farms and Gainesway, etc - which are nicer than a lot of folks' homes! ;->). I'd say that facilities must at least be in GOOD repair. While having nice white paint on the fences would look pretty, it's better that fences are inspected and SAFE for the horses than that they be asthetically pleasing... Regular checks for nails and other hazards would be a must. A shelter where horses can get out of wind and other bad weather and where the weaker horses won't get pinned in by the stronger. Cleanliness - regular mucking of pens, scrubbing of feeders/water buckets. My guess is that most rescues would rather put the $$ into saving an additional horse or two or three than in making the place "pretty" unless they have very deep pockets or a donor that has done it for them. ============================================================ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 10:29:20 -0400 From: Cris May To: equinerescue@MyList.net Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: CLASS: Facilities >>> cabblcf 08/16 10:39 PM >>> OK, what is adequate? Who decides?>>> The short answer is YOU decide. Maryland didn't have any minimum care guidelines until a year ago when, in cooperation with statewide horse orgs., we drew up some that everyone could agree on. And no, there aren't any teeth in these guidelines, but they do give AC officers something to go by. I will do my best to post these guidelines on Monday when I return. > >facilities necessary to prohibit needless breeding>> Needless? IMO rescue facilities should NOT be involved in ANY breeding. So what is needless? This appears to give rescues a loophole if they decide to breed some horses. ***The Following is a Qualified Statement*** Um, I agree with you here, and Days End doesn't allow any breeding, period. But other rescues have used stud fees to help support their (quality) rescue work, or adopted horses out as broodmares because they are having trouble placing the mares and can't afford to maintain them at the rescue forever. We recognize, and you clearly recognize, that such breeding ultimately adds to the problem. But I just can't bring myself to slam an organization that is honestly doing the best it can to rescue and rehab, and making ends meet with breeding activities. I would urge anyone reading this who is thinking about starting a rescue to get their fundraising in order up front so they don't find themselves in the position of having to rely on stud fees, etc. to keep the org. going financially. On the other side of the coin there are orgs. out there calling themselves rescues who breed horses pretty much solely for the profit, and have figured out that they can make money by calling themselves a rescue and playing on sympathy. But then, bogus rescue operations could probably make for a whole separate class. ***IMO*** One more thing: it is not always possible to castrate a horse immediately. We currently have a stallion who has been with us almost 2 years. He remains intact because (1) we couldn't cut him until after the case had gone to court, (2) we did not want to endanger his health further, and after we got weight back on him and his feet as good as they were gonna get he tested positive for EPM and is now on round 2 of treatment, and (3) he is an exceptionally easy stud to deal with (this being the least of the 3 reasons). > and provide adequate care, maintenance and exercise.>> See above. It would be wonderful if we all had laws that said "you must provide a beautifully bedded 12x12 stall, pastures with run-in sheds, quality feed, fly masks, hoof trims every 8 weeks, annual dentist visits, quarterly vet checks, etc., etc. We don't, we are unlikely to get them, and the founder pony who needs his feet trimmed every 2 weeks and dares not ever even look at another blade of grass will still fall through the cracks. It often seems to me that rescue comes down to "We do the best we can with what we have, and try hard to improve what we have so we can do better." Feedback??? Cris May Days End Farm Horse Rescue ============================================================ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 10:49:50 -0400 From: Cris May To: equinerescue@MyList.net Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: CLASS: Facilities >>> Pat Calloway 08/16 11:54 PM >>> >What is adequate to state and federal authorities is often considered inadequate by many horsemen. > Getting any group of horsepeople to agree on such things is always a challenge. "Many" is the operative word in that sentence *G*. >>How many horses should be kept in an area of - say one acre? Would depend on the horse's sex, age, disposition, breed (minis vs regular horse), zoning laws, etc. What do you guys use as a general guideline? >> Feeding procedures are also part of it. If the pasture exists primarily as a 'recreation area' and you are individually providing all the horses' nutritional needs with feed and hay, you can maintain more horses on less acreage. >>we'll forget about the fancy barns a la Brookside Farms and Gainesway, etc - which are nicer than a lot of folks' homes! ;->). If you have the chance, by all means go look (and drool) at fancy show/breed barns. Its fun and you can find good horse care ideas which will translate to your meager budget. Don't we all like to see how "the other half" lives? >>I'd say that facilities must at least be in GOOD repair. While having nice white paint on the fences would look pretty, it's better that fences are inspected and SAFE for the horses than that they be asthetically pleasing... My guess is that most rescues would rather put the $$ into saving an additional horse or two or three than in making the place "pretty" unless they have very deep pockets or a donor that has done it for them. >>> But don't underestimate the value of the impression your facility makes on visitors. If people are unhappy about what they see at your facility you can bet they'll tell their friends... but not necessarily you. On the other hand, a special cleanup day or painting day, with some participation/discounts from local merchants is a positive thing for all concerned. Cris May Days End Farm Horse Rescue ============================================================ From: TETER@cybersol.com (Teter, Tammy) To: , "Cris May" Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: CLASS: Facilities Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 15:33:47 -0400 > > and provide adequate care, maintenance and exercise.>> > See above. It would be wonderful if we all had laws that said "you must provide a beautifully bedded 12x12 stall, pastures with run-in sheds, quality feed, fly masks, hoof trims every 8 weeks, annual dentist visits, quarterly vet checks, etc., etc. We don't, we are unlikely to get them, and the founder pony who needs his feet trimmed every 2 weeks and dares not ever even look at another blade of grass will still fall through the cracks. It often seems to me that rescue comes down to "We do the best we can with what we have, and try hard to improve what we have so we can do better." > > Feedback??? Thanks soooooo much. This, for me, is the best post I have seen in days. I still have chills. Isn't that the reason we are all here? You see, I'm one who goes to the auction to bring home those ponies who by Feburary have run out of body mass to get them through the rest of the winter. I'm one who gets the farrier out to see to the foundered pony every 2 weeks. I'm one who carefull screen these ponies new homes. I'm also one who watches ponies go to the killers (because I am tapped out of room, energy, and finances) and have nightmares about what happened to those durring transport. We are all here to do the very best we can with what we have. And we all will do better!!!!!!! Thanks again, Tammy ============================================================ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 05:49:27 -0600 From: Jim Blay and Monica Vasey To: equinerescue@MyList.net Subject: EQ-ResQ: CLASS question-Facilities Sorry, I'm still behind reading/studying the class posts. I do have a question about setting up facilities. I want to concentrate on Mustang rescue. My new vet asked me if I was planning on having a set of stocks. I hadn't even thought of it, and then I thought that some type of framework to make a sling would be good also. In case a horse was very frail or injured and needed to be upright but was unable to stand on its own. Maybe a sling could be fashioned using the framework for the stocks? Would anyone have a suggestion as to where I could get stocks? Do they come ready made from a livestock equiptment manufacturer? Is there a set of plans available that I could take to a shop and have the stocks made? Would anyone also have plans to make a sling? Thanks. Monica Vasey Rancho del Lobo Loco. ============================================================ To: equinerescue@MyList.net Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 08:07:28 -0700 Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: CLASS question-Facilities From: kparabians@juno.com (Lauren M Kennedy) Monica wrote: > Would anyone have a suggestion as to where I could get stocks? >Do they come ready made from a livestock equiptment manufacturer? The only place I've seen them advertised is through Good Horsekeeping, Inc. (they also deal in treadmills and Hot walkers). I'm not sure of a price, but their phone number is (417)751-2963. The stocks themselves are called "Easy Stocks". We have someone locally who makes stocks, and the vet always has his business cards on hand... (no one loves to see stocks at a horse facility like a vet!) Lauren K. ============================================================ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 08:45:14 -0600 From: Jim Blay and Monica Vasey To: equinerescue@MyList.net, Lauren M Kennedy Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: CLASS question-Facilities Thank you so much for the quick response. I just called the number and literature will be on its way to me right away! The gentleman said that there is a way to modify stocks to use as a sling if necessary. We had a nice discussion about my plans for starting a mustang rescue. He said he appreciates it very much for recommending his company to me. Monica in New Mexico. Rancho del Lobo Loco. Lauren M Kennedy wrote: > The only place I've seen them advertised is through Good Horsekeeping, > Inc. (they also deal in treadmills and Hot walkers). I'm not sure of a > price, but their phone number is (417)751-2963. Lauren K. ============================================================ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 19:00:59 -0600 From: Jim Blay and Monica Vasey To: equinerescue@MyList.net, Princess Anya Joniec Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: CLASS question-Facilities It's a sturdy framework kind of like a very small holding stall that a horse can be put into so that the vet can examine it without it jumping all around. If the horse is so weak or injured that it can't stand on its own a sling can be rigged (still trying to find out how) to the stocks to keep the horse upright until it's doing better. Hope this helps. Monica in New Mexico. Rancho del Lobo Loco. Princess Anya Joniec wrote: > what are "stocks"? I've probably seen them/it, but heard it called > something else. > Anya > ============================================================ To: equinerescue@MyList.net Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 21:02:43 -0700 Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: CLASS question-Facilities From: kparabians@juno.com (Lauren M Kennedy) Anya wrote (about stocks): > . I bet it's a really useful thing to have around. >Is it easy to store, or do you have to build it into the barn structure itself? You're right, they are VERY useful to have around. Much safer than dancing horses. As far as storage, stocks can be mobile or immobile. Some have their own floor, generally made of wood, which fits into the frame itself (these are the mobile ones). While others are set permanently into the ground. I wouldn't say they're "easy to store", just because they don't collapse and are always at full size (at least all the ones I've ever seen), so they take up about the same amount of space as a horse that doesn't walk around. Lauren ============================================================