DISCLAIMER: These posts contain hints, tips and ideas from folks that have had some experiences dealing with this. It is NOT meant to be legal advice here - just related experiences. Please consult with a reputable professional if necessary. Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 13:34:40 -0500 (EST) From: Keri Lynn Basham To: equinerescue@MyList.net Subject: EQ-ResQ: Starting a BIG fire, hopefully Hi everybody, I wanted to get everybody VERY up in arms today and try to get some results. There are 350 people on this list, right? How many represent organizations older than 3 years that are fulfilling their mission, to the extent that they planned? My point is how many people can discuss organizational and the non-horse related aspects of running a non-profit business, in practice instead of theory? A 501(c)3 organization can be run two main ways - like a souped up individual or like a business. There is no IRS requirement for non-profit organizations to lose money year after year and drain their founders. There is no IRS requirement that a public charity should not use sound business practices to operate in the black, pay salaries and in general, operate like a business. The only requirement along these lines is that the organization cannot use the "profits" for personal enrichment, they must put the money into the organiztion. I might have missed something essential, and I would like to be told, but why do many people on this list get upset when an organization makes money? It seems like a good idea to me to run an organization like a business with a main goal of saving horses and a secondary goal of making enough money to do it well. I get the impression that many people are on this list because they want to get a "rescue" horse - with rescue translated to "cheap" - as individuals. (NOT ALL so don't waste your finget tips flaming me on that, I know that at least several people on this list truly understand the tremendous cost of a horse needing long term medical care without any of the usually expected rewards such as riding) That's fine, I don't want to play list cop and run them off or anything rude like that, but I DO want to find the people that are trying to run an organization and get them talking. I want to know HOW TO MAKE MONEY doing this horse rescue thing. I don't mean personal money in my pocket so don't even go there. I want to know how to run a horse rescue as a viable business that can support itself for the purposes of moving horses into new homes for the next 30 years or more. For starters: How do you cover medical losses? (Not just one, multiple) If you only "lifetime lease", ie. retain ownership, how do you PLAN to enforce the contract? What legal steps do you take to ACTUALLY enforce the contract? When you get to your 500th horse how do you check on 500 horses each year? Who pays for the travel costs? How do you find adopters? What about after the first 25 or 100 - where do you go for sources of more new adopters after you've run through all of the people you knew personally? I have many more questions but I'll wait and see if this gets any response first. Keri in Kentucky ========== Keri Lynn Basham ====== Tue, 24 Nov 1998 12:46:35 -0700 (MST) From: LordRebeau@aol.com Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 14:45:02 EST To: equinerescue@MyList.net, klbash00@sac.uky.edu Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: Starting a BIG fire, hopefully Keri, I think that you bring up some excellent points in your message. I for one can not even claim that I am a non-profit. Of course I do not claim to be either, I simply try to help those horses that I can, place the ones that I can and well.. I have an ex racehorse ( would love to know his actual race record if there were anyone on the list that could get it) that has required hundreds of dollars in vet care and in the beginning a lot of money for farrier care.. same goes for a gelding that I eventually put down when we could no longer keep him comfortable. I am also forwarding your post , with your permission to several people that I am involved with , regarding a non-profit that is for therapeutic riding. It is currently being run like a souped up individual, while I would prefer to see it operate as a business... which would be better for everyone involved. Anyway, I have made no real contribution to what you said, but I do think you asked excellent questions.. Nicole ========== LordRebeau@aol.com ====== From: "May, Cris" To: "'equinerescue@mylist.net'" Subject: EQ-ResQ: Starting a BIG Fire? Looong Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 09:56:53 -0500 >>>I want to know HOW TO MAKE MONEY doing this horse rescue thing. How do you cover medical losses? (Not just one, multiple)>>> I'm not sure what you mean by medical losses? Large vet bills which won't be recouped when the horse is adopted out? Clarify, please. >>If you only "lifetime lease", ie. retain ownership, how do you PLAN to enforce the contract?>> We enforce the contract by doing annual, or more frequent, barn checks on the animal. This is why we only adopt in-state, and we're fortunate to be in a fairly small state. We have discussed how we would handle it if someone who adopted one of our horses, and was a wonderful, problem-free adopter, wanted to move out of state with the horse. This hasn't happened yet but we are hopeful we could work something out with a rescue in the destination state. >>What legal steps do you take to ACTUALLY enforce the contract?>> We have not yet had to enforce a contract per se. We did have one testy adopter who was sure he had the right to sell the horse. He was reminded of the terms of the adoption contract he signed, to which he replied "we'll see what my attorney has to say about that." I can only guess that his attorney told him he didn't have a leg to stand on since the horse came back to us shortly thereafter with no problems. >>>When you get to your 500th horse how do you check on 500 horses each year? Who pays for the travel costs?>>> 1999 will be our 10th year in operation and we haven't reached 500 horses yet. We take in 20-30 horses per year. I would be surprised if our list of horses to be checked exceeds 100 horses. The physical fragility of horses means that some will die from natural causes over time, so it isn't like every horse you ever took in will need to be checked on. If a volunteer does the barn check, or a paid employee using a personal vehicle, it is that person's responsibility to keep track of mileage and deduct it from their taxes at tax time. If a farm vehicle is used, its just part of the cost of doing business. >>How do you find adopters? What about after the first 25 or 100 - where do you go for sources of more new adopters after you've run through all of the people you knew personally?>> Maryland has a state-wide horse magazine, published monthly. We run ads listing our horses, and we get these ads at a reduced rate because we're non-profit, and because we run some type of ad every month which gives us a greater discount. What local publications can you make use of? The key to finding adopters, and volunteers, and supporters, and keeping the cash flowing in, is that the public MUST know that you exist. There are lots of sub-factors in bringing in bucks and support (and this is getting to be a Class discussion), but the single most important thing to remember is that People and Organizations Can't Support You or Adopt from You if They Don't Know You Exist!!!! (emphasis, not scream) I'm looking forward to continuing this discussion, but perhaps our re line should be Class: Money Matters? Klondike (Cris May) Days End Farm Horse Rescue (MD) http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/6768 ========== "May, Cris" ====== Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 10:07:26 -0700 To: equinerescue@MyList.net From: Pat Calloway Subject: EQ-ResQ: CLASS: Money Matters Changed subject line - was "Starting a BIG Fire? Looong", now CLASS: Money Matters. At 09:56 AM 11/25/98 -0500, May, Cris wrote: > I'm looking forward to continuing this discussion, but perhaps our >re line should be Class: Money Matters? > Good idea. I have been saving these to go in the Class/Brainstorming Archives. Please take note, folks and change your subject lines if replying publically to this thread. Thanks, Cris. Pat Calloway, Equine Rescue/Creatures Listowner epona@concentric.net (AZ) http://pages.prodigy.com/equinerescue/home.htm http://pages.prodigy.com/equinerescue/creature.htm ========== Pat Calloway ====== Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 08:28:44 -0500 (EST) From: Keri Lynn Basham To: equinerescue@MyList.net Subject: EQ-ResQ: Re: CLASS: Money Matters Re: The medical loss question I am looking for how other organizations get the cash money to pay for goods and services that are not donated. In this business horses are going to need the vet and somebody is going to need to pay for him or her. How do you get through the multiple cases. I don't want to know about the individual ways of getting personal loans and selling personal items for one horse's emergency. I want to know about the business way of doing it. Do you have a fundraiser that channels to the emergency vet bill fund or do you set a cap on how much is spent per horse unless there is additional public support or do you do as much as you can with what money you have or what? Keri In Kentucky ========== Keri Lynn Basham ====== From: BLRYSTROM@aol.com Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 16:40:14 EST To: equinerescue@MyList.net, klbash00@sac.uky.edu Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: Re: CLASS: Money Matters In a message dated 11/27/98 7:28:58 AM Central Standard Time, klbash00@sac.uky.edu writes: << How do you get through the multiple cases. I don't want to know about the individual ways of getting personal loans and selling personal items for one horse's emergency. I want to know about the business way of doing it. Do you have a fundraiser that channels to the emergency vet bill fund or do you set a cap on how much is spent per horse unless there is additional public support or do you do as much as you can with what money you have or what? >> i know that i have had two vets offer to donate their services at cost. dawn ========== BLRYSTROM@aol.com ====== From: slyshot@mindspring.com Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: Re: CLASS: Money Matters Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 03:42:56 -0500 >I am looking for how other organizations get the cash money to pay for goods and services that are not donated. How do you get through the multiple cases. I want to know about the business way of doing it. >Do you have a fundraiser that channels to the emergency vet bill fund or >do you set a cap on how much is spent per horse unless there is additional >public support or do you do as much as you can with what money you have or >what? Based on the prior year's vet bills we budget how much we think we will need for the coming year. This only includes regular vet stuff. We have one vet and that vet's backup, who bill us at a discounted rate. Using this baseline we know how much money we will need to raise and we look at our sources of income from the previous year and try to figure out how to make them grow. If someone has had the time to write grant proposals we may have grant money available for critical cases. We have also used plea letters and a "blood drive" approach to raising money at an open house to fix specific non-life-threatening things such as an infected jawbone in a young horse. At one point we had 7 stallions that needed gelding and we tapped vets who had previously offered to help for that. All were donated. But we prefer to use the regular vet for most things simply because with donations you sometimes get what you pay for, all vets not being equal. Klondike (Cris May) Days End Farm Horse Rescue (MD) http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/6768 ========== slyshot@mindspring.com ====== DISCLAIMER: These posts contain hints, tips and ideas from folks that have had some experiences dealing with this. It is NOT meant to be legal advice here - just related experiences. Please consult with a reputable professional if necessary.