Disclaimer: Please note that none of the information contained in these files is meant to be professional information. Consult your vet, attorney or other professional for their advice. To: equinerescue@imagicomm.com From: Beckie Dunlop Subject: EQ-ResQ: Chronic diarrhea Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 18:49:55 +0000 Wondered if anyone out there can help me on this one??? One of our first rescues (Belle) is 18 years plus. About 3 months ago she started with diarrhea (looser than cow patty consistency) I took in a stool sample and the vet told me she had worms and came out and tube wormed her (since then I found out that really wasn't necessary) Anyway didn't clear up so took in another stool sample and this time she said it was coccyxdia and started Corrid treatments, this went on for another 3 weeks, them she said we should try a product I believe was called SMZ..some kind of sulfa drug. At this point I became exasperated and went to see the other vet in town who came out and did blood work and another stool sample. All blood work is normal except for being slightly dehydrated and stool is normal also along with her physical and teeth. She has lost about 150 pounds. He has started her on Flagyl for 7 days, probios and electrolytes. Needless to say I will not be using the first vet again .Was wondering if anyone had any experience in this sort of thing. All 11 other horses are fine which leads me to believe she didn't have coccxydia to begin with. Thanks, Beckie 2x2 Ranch&Refuge http://members.xoom.com/ranch2x2/index.htm ============================================================ To: equinerescue@imagicomm.com From: horsesaver Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: Chronic diarrhea Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 22:23:07 -0500 them she said we should try a product I believe was called >SMZ..some kind of sulfa drug. He has started her on Flagyl for 7 days, >probios and electrolytes. Needless to say I will not be using the first >vet again .Was wondering if anyone had any experience in this sort of >thing. I haven't been through this with a horse, but i have with my dogs. today very often they do give dogs Flagyl, when they can't find a cause. mabe it is some parasite that can not be detected. also i know of use for a sulfa drug, because i take that for colitis. the Flagyl might work, usually you don't see a difference the first day, i think it takes around the second to see an improvement. karenp.in ny ============================================================ To: equinerescue@imagicomm.com From: Tracey Kaul Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: Chronic diarrhea Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 22:37:31 -0500 > I have not seen this in my horse either, but I do have an 11 year old cocker > that is on meds because she has "irritable bowel disorder." She gets one > pill of Metromydosol sp?, every 5 days and it will never go away, only get > worse. I was told it comes with age. All else on her is fine, so maybe this > could be a problem in your horse?????? I don't know if horses can even get > such a thing, but it is worth a try to ask. Tracey ============================================================ To: equinerescue@imagicomm.com From: dlinkous@radix.net Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: Chronic diarrhea Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 22:39:21 -0500 >another stool sample. All blood work is normal except for being slightly >dehydrated and stool is normal also along with her physical and teeth. >She has lost about 150 pounds. He has started her on Flagyl for 7 days, >probios and electrolytes. Needless to say I will not be using the first >vet again .Was wondering if anyone had any experience in this sort of >thing. All 11 other horses are fine which leads me to believe she didn't >have coccxydia to begin with. Thanks, Beckie 2x2 Ranch&Refuge Stool samples do not always reveal the worm load a horse is carrying, particularly encysted small strongyle larvae, which won't turn up at all. The Flagyl is for any bacterial infection, and it makes sense to me that he's trying it, as do the probiotics and electrolytes (she's losing a lot of fluids with the diarrhea). A course of fenbendazole (Panacur or Safe-Guard), double dose according to the horse's weight for 5 days in a row, will kill encysted small strongyle larvae (and tapeworms). After the Flagyl treatment is over and she's had a few days without anything, you might try that. In lab tests, fenbendazole at doses nearly 100 times the recommended dose was not found to cause any side effects. It's pretty darn safe. Diana ============================================================ To: equinerescue@imagicomm.com From: "slyshot" Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: Chronic diarrhea Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 22:40:59 -0500 Beckie: What are you feeding her? We had an older horse who would get nasty diarrhea every time he got a little alfalfa. Klondike (Cris May) Days End Farm Horse Rescue (MD) http://www.defhr.org ============================================================ To: equinerescue@imagicomm.com From: Pixin@aol.com Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: Chronic diarrhea Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 22:44:09 EST My old horse has diarrhea on and off. I switched his feed to Purina Equine Senior and it seemed to help a little bit. I also did the worming with five days of Panacur to make sure that wasnt the cause of it. I put him on Pepto Bismo, 15 tablets twice a day, and it really helped. I then weaned him off of the Pepto and just give it as needed. The vet said the Pepto Bismo is fine for horses, but not to give them Imodium AD or Metamucil. ============================================================ To: equinerescue@imagicomm.com From: "Maureen Scuorzo" Subject: EQ-ResQ: Chronic Diarrhea Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 22:13:33 -0600 I had a horse come into my rescue with chronic diarrhea.Even when she passed gas she would squirt.Had my vet out nad she did a blood work up the only thing that showed on the blood work up was that she was aniemic slightly.The fecal showed worms.So first we gave her double her weight dose of Pancer five day in a row.Didn't work took another fecal sample and my vet thought she also saw Coccyxdia.but horses are not really known to get it.She consulted some other vets turned out my horse had tape worms.Tape worms stay at the bottom of the test instead of floating to the top like other worms during the test.Thats what appears to look like Coccyxdia.Well we double her dosage on Strongid paste(the only known thing to get rid of tape worms) and this worked.In the beginning I had to worm her every four weeks double her dose.The worms that came out were very visible.This horse was a mini and only 6 months old when I got her.We could not believe her worm count was over 5000.The tape worms have done damage that will never be fixed.We also gave her vita charge paste to help her heal inside.She is now almost 3 and doing well.We just have to make sure she doesn't eat things like fresh grass,alfalfa or anything high in protein(this will induce diarrhea again)and we worm her now on a rotation basis every four weeks(pancer,Strongid,ivermectin).I hope this helps Maureen Tiny Timbers Horse Rescue ============================================================ To: equinerescue@imagicomm.com From: Pixin@aol.com Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: Chronic diarrhea Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 00:41:07 EST I forgot to say, I also give him Probiotics.. ============================================================ To: equinerescue@imagicomm.com From: Faith Vis Subject: EQ-ResQ: Chronic diarrhea Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 07:42:48 -0400 Could it be that the horse is eating something like wild garlic out in the pasture? I know that can produce explosive diarrhea and perhaps other wild plants can do the same thing. Faith in the Endless Mountains of PA ============================================================ To: equinerescue@imagicomm.com From: "Mike & Chris Smith" Subject: RE: EQ-ResQ: Chronic diarrhea Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 07:01:13 -0500 We had a 35+ year old QH mare with this problem. We believe, in her case, it was due to some gut damage from the large parasite load during her neglected years. We saw some improvement when we switched her to a Senior formula, but have since found that different brands work differently for different horses. No one magic formula that works for all. The one thing that made a *big* difference in this particular mare was PerforMax Ration Maximizer (Farnam.) Its not specifically labeled for this purpose, but one of Farnum's reps recommended it and it worked. Her stools were seldom totally "normal" but we learned to be happy with "soft, but formed." (Heck, at one point a "cow patty" was cause for celebration.)Even with the looser than normal stools, she stayed in good weight and excellent health until we lost her at age 39 due to some neurological problems. Prior to careful dietary management, we tried all the things you've outlined...different wormers, antibiotics, Probiotics, yogurt (!).......We were also told this "can happen in geriatrics" just because their digestive systems are less efficient. Not very reassuring, but at that point we stopped looking for a cause and started treating the symptoms and got better results. Also noticed that it got worse if she was stressed about soemthing, so what Gypsy wanted, Gypsy got. I have to add that the day we let her go, when we later went to clean her stall, there was the most perfectly formed pile anybody could ask for. Funny what some people consider a last "gift." Chris Equine Rescue League Leesburg, VA http://www.equinerescueleague.org ============================================================ To: equinerescue@imagicomm.com From: Deb Nelles Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: Chronic Diarrhea Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 07:42:28 -0600 We've dealt with the same thing. Something that can help with diarrhea is beet pulp. The high fiber does wonders and has produced "horse apples" in rescue horses we have had that before had only chronic diarrhea. This helps the horse as you tackle the cause of the darrhea, it's NEVER a cure for what caused the diarrhea to begin with. Just be sure to soak the beet pulp for at least 8 hours before feeding as it really expands in volume, picks up a lot of water. All the water helps a horse with chronic diarrhea who usually has some dehydration. When we feed beet pulp to a rescue, we give normal rations to the horse (based on a 700 lb. rescue horse in not so good shape), and then offer 2-3 cups of beet pulp (measured before soaking) for increased fiber. We increase beet pulp slowly until we are offering about 8 cups. Beet pulp can be obtained from your local feed mill. Ours is about $6.00 for a 50 pound bag. So it is very a very economical way to put fiber into your horses diet. The beet pulp also is great for horses with chewing problems, once again, especially the older rescue horse. We give Equine Senior , and then ADD beet pulp to the diet, (we do not decrease the Equine Senior as we have not had good results with that) . The beet pulp supplements the fiber that the equine gut needs. And in winter it provides fiber to keep that equine stomach furnace going strong to keep the horse warm. deb ============================================================ To: equinerescue@imagicomm.com From: Beckie Dunlop Subject: EQ-ResQ: Chronic Diarrhea Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 18:39:35 +0000 As usual you guys pulled me through and gave me some good suggestions and things to think about. Will talk to vet if no improvement by Monday and rethink the worm thing. She is currently receiving 11% mixed with senior feed, this is one fussy old gal. Also started her on Focus Senior. Thanks for all the suggestions, will let everyone knows how it goes. Keep Belle in your thoughts and prayers. Beckie 2x2 Ranch&Refuge ============================================================ To: equinerescue@imagicomm.com From: BoldAngel1@aol.com Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: Chronic Diarrhea Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 14:14:22 EST In a message dated 3/10/00 10:29:56 AM US Mountain Standard Time, nelles@dwave.net writes: << The beet pulp supplements the fiber that the equine gut needs. And in winter it provides fiber to keep that equine stomach furnace going strong to keep the horse warm. deb >> I'm in Arizona , would beet pulp not be a little to hot for this climate in the winter months ? I've thought of giving it a try ... I do blanket the older ones , plus lots of shavings for bedding . For my older guys and gals I make a bran moosh with 1 cup of Aloe vera blended , also half a cup each of asparagus and beets (also blended ) and a 4 0z jar of baby carrots along with the flex free and flrx GL and enflamx for the 2 arthritic guys .. They get Senior and a flake of alfalfa , and bermuda grass is down at all times .. ============================================================ To: equinerescue@imagicomm.com From: Deb Nelles Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: Chronic Diarrhea Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 13:46:15 -0600 > Bold angel writes: > > I'm in Arizona , would beet pulp not be a little to hot for this climate in > the winter months ? ..... For my older guys and gals I make a bran moosh with > 1 cup of Aloe vera blended , also half a cup each of asparagus and beets > (also blended ) and a 4 0z jarof baby carrots along with the flex free and > flrx GL and enflamx for the 2 arthritic guys > Beet pulp would not be too hot a feed for your horses. Beet pulp is the pulp of > beets after the juice with the sugars has been taken out for other use. You are > feeding pulp with not alot of the sugar (quick energy) left in it. Different > brands of beet pulp may have different levels of energy dependent on its > processing. I note that you already do feed some beet - if it is not pulp it > has alot of sugar in it and is a source of "hot" quick energy for a horse that > will not help keep them warm but may pick up their energy. The fiber of beet > pulp in the gut helps the horse to keep warm but is not high in sugars to > produce a "hot" horse. If you have a horse that is hard to keep weight on, beet pulp will also be of benefit. In a horse with an inefficient gut the pulp works well because it is already partially "broken" down by the processing to remove the sugars. So it is more easily digested. And the partially broken down fiber is much easier on a horses gut. A horse with bad teeth will benefit because the pulp is partially broken down. A horse begans the digestion process by chewing his fiborous foods to release the nutrients. If a horse does not chew his food prior to swallowing, his gut does not compensate and do the job his teeth should have to break down the food. The food basically passes out of the horse with very little of the nutrients being utilized. Feeding something already partially broken down, such as beet pulp, gives the horse the fiber he needs in the state he needs it in. And of course, every horse is again different. And what works well with one may not work well with another. But don't be afraid to try beet pulp. In all seasons our horses, from rescued minis to a rescued national show horse have benefitted from it. I held off for 5 years before I tried it. But now I swear by it! deb ============================================================ To: equinerescue@imagicomm.com From: Cozynjoan@aol.com Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: Chronic diarrhea Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 15:19:19 EST When would one administer the fenbendazole? By that I mean, at what time of the year? I was under the impression that by using my wormers in rotation, The Rotectrin I and II, that I needed no other worming. Do I need to include the fenbendazole too? I know we're not vets here, but if you have an educated opinion on this, I'm sure a lot of people think their rotations are all they need, and we may be mistaken. Thanks. Star ============================================================ To: equinerescue@imagicomm.com From: dlinkous@radix.net Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: Chronic Diarrhea Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 19:09:06 -0500 > I'm in Arizona , would beet pulp not be a little to hot for this >climate in >the winter > months ? Beet pulp is not a hot feed. Most of the sugar has been removed. It contains 10% crude protein and 18% crude fiber. It is generally classified as a forage, not an energy feed. There is a lot of excellent information on this page written by a long-distance rider who has done a lot of research in equine nutrition: http://shady-acres.com/susan/beetpulp.shtml She has analyzed and researched beet pulp beyond anything else I've seen on the net, and the info is invaluable for anyone involved with stressed horses. Other information pages she has there are on calcium-phosphorus ratio, rice bran, tying up, alfalfa for distance horses, and more. Diana ============================================================ To: equinerescue@imagicomm.com From: CC40058@aol.com Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: Chronic Diarrhea Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 12:30:26 EST Our vet told us that the one thing that probably saved our mini from her diarrhea dragging her down was the electrolytes during all her other treatments. Good luck with yours, and let us know how things go. Caroline ...dedicated to the animals ============================================================ Disclaimer: Please note that none of the information contained in these files is meant to be professional information. Consult your vet, attorney or other professional for their advice.