DISCLAIMER: These posts contain hints, tips and ideas from folks that have had some experiences dealing with this. It is NOT meant to be legal advice here - just related experiences. Please consult with a reputable professional if necessary. Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 19:23:27 -0500 From: "Twin Oaks Farm, Inc." To: "equinerescue@MyList.net" Subject: EQ-ResQ: advise on cribber needed Hey Guys, Hope everyone had a wonderful Thanksgiving. I need some advise on my major cribber. The little filly I got cribbed half way through a post on the fence. Can anyone suggest a humane cribbing collar? Also what causes a horse to crib? I think there was a discussion on this several months back, but guess what, dumb me didn't read any of it because I didn't have a cribber. Lovely is the only cribber I have ever had. Any advise or suggestions are greatly appreciated. Suzan Twin Oaks Farm South Carolina ============================================================ Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 21:46:24 -0700 To: equinerescue@MyList.net, "Twin Oaks Farm, Inc." From: Pat Calloway Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: advise on cribber needed At 07:23 PM 11/27/98 -0500, Twin Oaks Farm, Inc. wrote: >cribbing collar? Also what causes a horse to crib? I think there was a >discussion on this several months back, but guess what, dumb me didn't >read any of it because I didn't have a cribber. Lovely is the only >cribber I have ever had. Any advise or suggestions are greatly >appreciated. Nerves, habit, some say they get it from their mothers. One theory is that it releases endorphins (I think I misspelled that) and the act itself is pleasurable sort of like smoking a cigarette may be to people. Have you tried coating her favorite post with something like red pepper like you'd put on a bandage to make it taste bad? Maybe something like that AND a cribbing collar ('cause I'm sure she'd find another post or something she liked just as much) would stop it. I don't think you can ever entirely break them of a habit like this since doing it sorta "rewards" them - and I tend to lean towards the endorphin theory on it given the attitude when they do it. Pat Calloway, Equine Rescue/Creatures Listowner epona@concentric.net (AZ) http://pages.prodigy.com/equinerescue/home.htm http://pages.prodigy.com/equinerescue/creature.htm ============================================================ From: "Patti" To: , "Twin Oaks Farm, Inc." Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: advise on cribber needed Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 23:21:52 -0800 >I need some advise on my major cribber. Hi Susan, I had a wonderful Quarter gelding many years ago who was, (is), a windsucker. I sold him to a friend of my Dads, who had surgery performed on him to cut a nerve, hopefully leaving him physically unable to crib. It did'nt work on him, and I understand it's still a 50/50 surgical success. However, I saw a special on animal behavior many months ago, which included a cribber, as well as 2 dogs who suffered seperation anziety. Enter the Dr / Researcher who administered Prozac to these animals. As of the air date of this show the horse was never seen to crib again while on the medication. The dogs only showed slight improvement. Patti ============================================================ From: slyshot@mindspring.com To: , "Twin Oaks Farm, Inc." Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: advise on cribber needed Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 03:16:32 -0500 >Can anyone suggest a humane cribbing collar?> We use the Miracle Collar or the ordinary crib collar with the metal piece that fits in the throatlatch area. The really bad cribbers wear the collar all the time. There is a fleece sleeve for the regular collar that makes it more comfortable and causes less chafing. No collar will completely eliminate the cribbing but it does keep it under control. You want to keep it under control not only to save your fenceposts, etc., but because some horses will learn to crib from watching others do it. Klondike (Cris May) Days End Farm Horse Rescue (MD) http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/6768 ============================================================ From: HVNS7TH@aol.com Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 04:40:24 EST To: equinerescue@MyList.net, pdr333@email.msn.com Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: advise on cribber needed In a message dated 98-11-28 02:22:14 EST, you write: << I need some advise on my major cribber. >> I have had a couple of cribbers and found that the best way to keep them from it was a "basket" which must be worn with a halter...it allows the horse to graze, eat grain, hay, drink etc with out hindering at all and it DOES NOT allow for the horse to get it's teeth on anything that it can chew or suck on. I wasted alot of money on cheap baskets...and discovered that the stainless ones that run about $50-60 are well worth the price as they do not rust and fall apart ever...I still have a basket that I purchased about 13 years ago... looks brand new. If the horse in question is only "eating" her barn...I suggest OLD USED MOTOR OIL...mixed with diesel and then painted on the wood... Very effective way of protecting your barn/fencing from the "termites" of the equine world. And it gives the wood a rich dark color which is very pretty... it will take a few days to soak into the wood but once it does the horses will not chew on it! (you may experience some of the goop getting onto the horse but it does go away and in the long run is worth the mess for a few days.) ============================================================ ate: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 06:51:42 -0800 To: equinerescue@MyList.net From: The Murray Gang Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: advise on cribber needed >You want to keep it under control not only to save your fenceposts, etc., >but because some horses will learn to crib from watching others do it. Not only do you not want other horses to "learn" this habit, but cribbing is bad physically for any horse. Muscles in the neck become so strengthened and enlarged that I've seen breathing and swallowing problems in cribbers. Teeth get worn down to the point where there are none in the front, which makes grazing difficult. Cribbers can become prone to colic. There are probably more physical dangers of cribbing, but I can't remember them this early in the morning after a sleepless night. There is also the extreme amount of damage a cribber can cause (and horses already cause enough damage to barns and such). I've seen horses develop psychological problems (which led to behavior problems) from cribbing. I've never owned a cribber, but I've heard that the Miracle Collar is good. I've seen horses develop sores on their necks from wearing the regular cribbing collar; even with the "sheepskin" protector. Janis M. :) ============================================================ Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 07:24:04 -0500 From: bvfarm To: equinerescue@MyList.net, "Twin Oaks Farm, Inc." Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: advise on cribber needed Suzan, We have a major cribber here on our farm and we have found that the only thing that works is a "Miracle Collar". They retail ata bout $30.00. This mare I have will crib on metal and glass even and this collar stops her 100%. Jennifer ============================================================ From: "Teresa Wilson" To: Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: advise on cribber needed Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 07:16:31 -0600 My sister uses the miracle colar on her paint and it works great!!! It also has the all leather colar with sheepskin so there is no chafing. Teresa ============================================================ From: Anneequss@aol.com Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 14:11:30 EST To: equinerescue@MyList.net, twinoaks@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: advise on cribber needed Suzan, Not that I'm a vet by any means but i do recall reading that some horses crib due to a mineral deficency. (wish I could give you a reference but it was in a magazine) Anyway where I used to board was a palamino gelding that started cribbing. Chewed everything he could get his mouth on. I told the owner about the mineral deficiency article I had read and we gave his big guy a mineral block. He stopped cribbing but started up again as soon as the block was gone. The owner was afraid the horse would over do it so wouldn't give the horse another block. (This was one of the smaller one or two lb blocks). It was also in the article that a horse will stop eating the mineral block as soon as it gets the required amount of minerals that it needs. I told the owner about this but he was not willing to give it a chance. The article stated also that cribbing is due to boredom or a mineral deficiency. Hope this helps. Anne ============================================================ Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 15:58:17 -0500 From: "Twin Oaks Farm, Inc." To: "equinerescue@MyList.net" Subject: EQ-ResQ: cribber Thanks everyone for all the information. It seems everyone likes the miracle collar. At the tack shop they thought it was great too. (I have found they think every product they sell is great, that's why I asked you guys.) Ha! Ha! I have also put a mineral block out, I had one in the other paddocks, but not in Lovely's and Bombshells. Bought some cyanne(sp) pepper spray made especially for fences, just to see if that helps also. Lovely gets a grain mix, 2 flakes of timothy/alfalfa, and free choice coastal bermuda, so its not that she hungry. I think it's more of habit or mineral def. As you see I am trying serveral suggestions, hoping they work. Also, our feed store has started selling a product called Kelpmate. I was given a few free samples, but not sure if I will use it or not. Has anyone used this product? Thanks again for all the great suggestions. Suzan Twin Oaks Farm South Carolina ============================================================ From: "reene sherrill" To: Subject: EQ-ResQ: Re: Cribbing Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 08:10:19 -0800 There's cribbing and there's windsucking right? I posted to the list about this gelding I helped rescue about a month ago. That's all he did. (Both) That's all he could do. He was in a tiny dry lot, no hay and not even fed on a daily basis. He didn't even have room to run if he had the notion nor did he have anywhere he could even look around for a change of scenery being his lot was walled on three sides. When we moved him and his companion to twenty acres with 12 other horses with daily feedings you could see him practically bloom. He has all but stopped cribbing/windsucking. So the theory that they do it from boredom and that the windsucking might release endorphines I believe proves true in this case. He now can be a real horse and eat every day and make new horse friends and anticipate new things from his new and loving owner. Reene ~__/> // \\ runaway@gate.net ============================================================ Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 18:16:46 -0500 (EST) To: equinerescue@MyList.net From: "Linda L. Bell" Subject: EQ-ResQ: Re: advise on cribber > If the horse in question is only "eating" her barn...I suggest OLD USED >MOTOR OIL...mixed with diesel and then painted on the wood... I was under the impression that would be toxic for a horse. What we use is Texas Pete Hot Sauce painted on the wood. My vet suggested it as well as mixing water with Cayenne Pepper powder to form a paste and paint that on. I like the basket idea. We have considered using one as a muzzle for at fair since our Palomino mare likes to nip. Last year we posted a sign that read "Fingers look like carrots and I will chew them both!" I hope everyone had a very blessed and enjoyable Thanksgiving. Sincerely, Linda ============================================================ From: HVNS7TH@aol.com Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 07:03:20 EST To: equinerescue@MyList.net, lindalb@bright.net Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: Re: advise on cribber In a message dated 98-11-29 18:18:05 EST, you write: << > If the horse in question is only "eating" her barn...I suggest OLD USED >MOTOR OIL...mixed with diesel and then painted on the wood... I was under the impression that would be toxic for a horse. What we use is Texas Pete Hot Sauce painted on the wood. >> I have never personally had a horse even touch the wood when painted with the motor oil/diesel mix... they smell it and stay away, some will touch it with their noses while smelling it etc...but not chew it. I have tried the texas pete and found that it has no residual effect, other than when it's fresh it won't work....and I have had one horse (an Appy of course!) That loved the stuff! ============================================================ Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 12:49:54 -0500 (EST) To: equinerescue@MyList.net From: "Linda L. Bell" Subject: EQ-ResQ: Re:advise on cribber It was also brought to my attention that you could use aluminum strips over the boards, sand them smooth and they will not rust or chafe. This eliminates the chewing, also increase the time the horses are stimulated with play or riding. 99% of the time chewing stems from boredom. Give them stallballs that hold grain inside, apple smelling chewy toys, empty plastic milk jugs, etc. With our limited budget we have opted to try using just about anything that is safe for a horse, you have to remember they are like children and they look for easily removable parts to take apart or swallow. Good luck!! Not all suggestions work for everyone else. Nothing else it is a good suggestion. Have a blessed day! Linda ============================================================ Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 23:45:54 -0500 From: gafarm To: "equinerescue@mylist.net" Subject: EQ-ResQ: advise on cribber The hot sauce may work great on some, but some acquire a taste for it. I know! I tried a combination of hot sauce and hot pepper on the top board of my mare's stall. At first she made a face and curled her lip up, but when I came back later she was busy licking it off of all the boards I had painted it on and she didn't stop until they were all CLEAN! LOL. Tried the miracle collar, but it is not cut right for the arabian type jowls and made her always hold her head at an unnatural angle for an arabian. I also came out and frequently found she had some how twisted it totally upside down! (throat piece on her mane!) The metal crib collars are way too large for her small arab head and neck and the baskets are so big I'm afraid she will get them hung up on something in her stall. Finally I just gave up. I figured the board was much cheaper to replace than what it cost me for all the things I tried to stop the behavior! It hasn't caused her any physical problems so far. Betti Goddard NE Ohio ============================================================ Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 16:42:35 -0800 To: equinerescue@MyList.net From: The Murray Gang Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: Re:advise on cribber > It was also brought to my attention that you could use aluminum strips over >the boards, sand them smooth and they will not rust or chafe. This >eliminates the chewing, Not for all of them. My girlfriend just built a beautiful barn and put aluminum on the tops of all the walls. The aluminum is now a crumpled, torn mess from her gelding chewing on it. Another friend had U-channel steel put on the tops of her stall walls and 4X4 wire mesh on the fronts of the stalls. Her mare can't chew on the steel without discomfort, so she actually cribs on the wire mesh. >also increase the time the horses are stimulated with play or riding. 99% of the time chewing >stems from boredom. The easiest way to slow down a cribber is to simply turn them out all the time (think about it; what nasty habits might you pick up if you were penned up all the time with only limited exercise or play time?). A woman I know ended up owning a cribber about 10 years ago. Three of her other horses now crib. Her 3 horses stop cribbing when turned out. The original cribber is very dedicated and not even a collar slows her down. She is kept in an open pasture (wearing her collar) with the only object inside the wire fence being a run-in and she still cribs. When out riding, she will take you to a tree or a stump or the side of a building so she can crib. And when you're riding and she decides it's time to crib, you can't stop her. She's even been seen cribbing on steel T-posts. Basically, just keep trying things until you (hopefully) find one that works. Janis M. ============================================================ From: ESMSatHome@aol.com Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 19:06:25 EST To: equinerescue@MyList.net, pwmurray@csonline.net Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: Re:advise on cribber In a message dated 12/2/1998 2:48:00 PM US Mountain Standard Time, pwmurray@csonline.net writes: << She's even been seen cribbing on steel T-posts. >> Karro used to do that - until I put a hot wire around his pen! ============================================================ From: "Birdwalk Farms" To: Subject: EQ-ResQ: cribber toys Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 19:51:39 -0600 Give them : stallballs that hold grain inside, apple smelling chewy toys, empty plastic : milk jugs, etc. wheelbarrow tires will work for indoor stalls. I refer to the cheap flimsy type usually provided. tires outside will collect and hold water. Dan at Birdwalk Farms ============================================================