Disclaimer: Please note that none of the information contained in these files is meant to be professional information. Consult your vet, attorney or other professional for their advice. Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 17:43:14 -0500 From: Amanda Perez Subject: EQ-ResQ: auction process I am thinking about rescuing from an auction such as New Holland, but I'd like to know more about how they work. 1. How much information is available about the horses being auctioned? Can they be handled prior to the bidding? Is it common for the owners to be present so you can ask them questions? 2. Is a vet available on-site to make an evaluation of the horse? Is any form or health certificate provided? 3. How is payment made - cash? Money order? 4. How long after the bidding on that horse is complete do you have to load the animal and take it away? Any information that can be provided would be greatly appreciated. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 20:46:30 -0600 From: "Elaine Doyle" Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: auction process Hello, I've bought at auction before and to answer your questions; Usually the owner themselves are in the ring with the horse and you can ask questions then or it is actually better to go behind the scene and try to catch the owners there with their horses. most people who sell auction want their horses to go to good people. It's a convenience to take them to the auction, rather than go through the hassle of advertising the animals. If you check the animals in back most owners will let you handle them and ride them. If they won't there's something wrong... As to the health of the horses, any that are sold at auction that are from out of state must have a neg. coggins test, at least in the state of Iowa. I'm not sure about other states. I've never seen a vet at an auction that I've been to, however, that could just be the ones I've been too. Every sale I've been to will take a check and they give you a bill of sale and that must be shown to the men loading before you can load your horse. I've bought a horse and picked it up the next day but that is something you might want to call ahead and check with the sale barn as to their policy. Also, at the sales here alot of times the auctioneer will announce if someone has room in a trailer and it's going in a specific direction. I hope that helps you. Good Luck!! Elaine A Bad Day Riding Is Better Than A Good Day At Work ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 23:39:03 -0500 From: dlinkous@radix.net Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: auction process All of this varies according to the particular auction barn. I would suggest that you attend a couple of auctions at the location you plan to buy from, and also that you find someone knowlegeable to go with you. Things can happen very fast at an auction, and you may find yourself bidding before you've done the investigating you intended to. At all of the auctions I've been to, you can go behind the scenes in the barn areas and look the horses over if you go early. Most of them will have their hip tags/numbers on, so you can write down the numbers of the ones you like. If the owner is around (and sometimes they will be out drinking coffee or in the office or something), you can ask to have the horse taken out into the ring if there is one. Often you will see owners in the ring riding their horses for people to see, and letting people try them. Some won't let others ride the horse, presumably for insurance reasons. Some auctions give you three days within which you can return the horse if it shows lameness or other unsoundness that wasn't disclosed at the time of sale and should have been. Some horses will be sold "as is", some will be sold as "sound of wind and limb" but many sell with no claims of soundness. Some have been drugged to disguise pain of any sort, and others have been tranked. I've never seen a health certificate supplied at a horse auction, but I suppose it's not impossible. If a horse has such a thing, the owner is unlikely to sell it at auction. If you want a vet to examine a horse, you'd best bring your own vet. I would NEVER use a vet already there at an auction... who knows where they get their money? Now, if you are looking to rescue a horse, the first think you want to look at is your wallet. Are you prepared to pay high vet or farrier bills? Are you prepared to get a horse that turns out cannot be ridden and will live another 20 years? If you are looking for a riding horse, I'm not sure an auction is your best bet, unless you are wise to all this, or have someone who is and who will accompany you and ... hold your wallet for you . AND your bidding number. Good luck whatever you do, and let us know, Diana ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 01:01:58 -0500 From: "Wolfe Family" Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: auction process At New Holland, this is how things are handled. 1. You can check at the office and find out the owner of the horses name. It is possible to track them down if they are at the auction and they have a PA system that I would guess you could ask the owner to come to the office. If they care much about what they will get for the horse, they will be nearby to provide people with information about the horse. It is possible to ride some of the horses and handle them but that is up to the owner. Some people do write down some information or it is yelled out about the horse when it is brought into the ring. 2. New Holland is supposed to have a vet on site for the auction. We did use him at our last visit to draw blood for coggins tests and check out an umbilical hernia in one of our purchases. They can do a prepurchase exam for you. Some horses do have coggins tests and health certificates but I think this is really an exception. 3. New Holland accepts cash or now credit cards. They do charge a flat fee to use a credit card though. 4. They do allow you to leave the horses overnight. I don't know how long they will allow it or if they would charge then. If you would like more information about New Holland, you can check out Carpe Diem's web site at www.equine911.org we do purchase some of our rescues from New Holland and would be glad to try to be available to help you with a purchase or if you want to adopt a New Holland rescue so you can better know what you are getting you can check out what is available as well. Thanks and good luck. Ladybug ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 07:52:32 -0700 From: Pat Calloway Subject: EQ-ResQ: Auctions (Thoroughbreds) I've only been to Thoroughbred auctions in NY and Arizona (although I follow them in other states as well), but here's a bit about them for those that might be interested. First get a catalog. That'll give you most of the information you want as far as when the horses will be on the grounds for viewing. They're usually there for at least two days before the sale and 99% of the time there will be folks there to take them out and move them for you. Sometimes they will be very forthcoming about faults/problems in a horse and sometimes they are just the consigners and don't know much about him/her. Nope, you can't ride 'em. Generally what's available is a pedigree page and your own eyeballs (and that of any advisors) although some of the bigger sales are having leg xrays and scoping reports available to your vet at a central location. You can bring in a vet to look over the paperwork and/or horse on certain days. ATBA says that the consignor must disclose any/all medication being currently administered to a horse within 24 hours prior to the time of the sale and it needs to be written up by a vet. They'll announce things like eye diseases or injury or cribbing at the time the horse is actually on the auction block. The ATBA has also added that if the horse is a wobbler, it must be disclosed at that time. At the October sale, they announced that a few horses had had stitches recently and one was under treatment for an injury. Arizona has started an "upset" price for the yearlings in the October ATBA sale. The current upset is $1000. A few horses did not get this bid and were taken back to the barn. I'm not sure if anyone followed up to see if they could buy the horses for less or not, but the seller knows the upset price going in. They're happy to take cash, but most have you fill out an authorization to bid/credit application. People can pick up the horses in many cases after the sale is final (you've paid and are clear to go) and have until a certain time the next day - usually noon. You do have to show the paperwork matching the hip number on the way out of the gate. The only health clearances that I know of that are required are a current coggins. Mares generally have the vaccine to prevent abortion. A calendar for Thoroughbred sales: http://auctions.bloodhorse.com/calendar/index.html It has quite a few of these as past sales (1997). Which horses might go for less? *Generally* those that have the more serious conformation flaws (remember no horse is perfect) and/or a female family that doesn't produce a lot of "black type" (black type is earned by horses in certain stakes races and usually means a somewhat higher class horse) and/or doesn't produce many horses that get to the track and/or win. So for example if you get a catalog and see that a horse's dam who was unraced, produced 5 foals, only one of which ran and s/he only won one race and raced 1 year, and the horse that you are looking at is crooked, then that horse may not go for much money. If on the other hand, the mare produced 5 foals, all of whom got to the races and have won at least 6 races each and the yearling being auctioned looks good conformation wise, then s/he is probably not going for $1k or less. But ya never know. Sometimes the younger horses in the sale don't go for much since they don't show to advantage against their older peers. Broodmares can go cheap if they haven't produced much and/or have problems getting pregnant or are getting older - usually over 15 or so - maybe time for a career change for them! Try to hook up and go with someone you trust that can give you some advice if you don't feel comfortable bidding on a horse or judging conformation, etc. If you're not going to breed or race, then the pedigree shouldn't matter too much to you as far as blacktype or who won a race, although I do like to see soundness and durability in a family. Hope this helps - I'll post some upcoming auctions where it's possible that there will be some for under $1000 later today or this week. Pat Calloway, Equine Rescue Listowner epona@concentric.net (AZ) http://www.crt-stable.com/equinerescue ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 10:40:54 -0500 From: Janis & David Jones Subject: EQ-ResQ: Auctions - Standardbred The next Standardbred sale at Delaware, Ohio, is coming up November 14-18, and the catalog is here: http://www.bloodedhorse.com To add to Pat's description, a little about STB sales and the cheaper horses... At this type of sale, the horse comes with papers transferred to the buyer, Coggins, and the buyer's full knowledge of who owned the horse. If it is racing, the buyer also gets the eligibility papers. If in foal, the seller must pay the stud fee before transfer. Generally, the cheaper are horses sold at the very start of the day, esp. the first day, and those at the very end, esp. re-listed by buyers who changed their minds. The meat buyers tend to load up the truck from the first horses sold. Very often, as with the TB's in Pat's note, they are open mares, mares w/o black type or w/ unfashionable breeding. If in foal, these ladies sell for the same as open mares most of the time. There will also be burned-out, retiring, too-slow, or lame racehorses in those sections. A lot of Amish purchases are the slow horses of dark color and few markings. There is no guarantee of bargains, as people will bid on what they want , but the cheapest STB's are usually in the $500-800 range, with many under $2000. If you are a woman, you may be lost in the crowd at a racehorse sale. Try to find the spotters working with the auctioneer, and do not be shy about yelling out or waving to get their attention. Then keep your eyes on the spotter so he'll know you're still bidding. Auctions move fast, and it's easy to see the hammer rap for someone else when you're sure you made a bid. Last...those sitcom stories about people "accidentally" buying things because they sneezed or waved at someone are pure fantasy. You are much more likely to be overlooked than for this to happen. Janis ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 08:31:55 -0700 From: Pat Calloway Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: Auctions (Thoroughbreds) At 07:52 AM 11/9/99 -0700, I wrote: >Arizona has started an "upset" price for the yearlings in the October ATBA >sale. The current upset is $1000. Just a clarification on this since I didn't write it very well. This just applies to the yearlings at the Arizona Thoroughbred Breeders Association sale in October. (The upset for weanlings and mares was $250, btw, but they all went for more than that.) I don't know what the upset is at other sales in the state. Things like this are or should be spelled out in either the sale catalog or posted at the auction. Sometimes you just have to ask if you can't find it either place. Pat Calloway, Equine Rescue Listowner epona@concentric.net (AZ) http://www.crt-stable.com/equinerescue ------------------------------ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 22:21:44 -0500 From: Susan Drake Subject: EQ-ResQ: auctions/inexpensive horses My husband and I attended the Ohio Fall Mixed TB Sale a few weeks ago and some lovely, lovely older mares went for $600/700/800 IN FOAL. If I am remembering correctly, one mare was a full sister to the sire of Silver Charm. If we hadn't gone just to "see", I would have come home with two mares. Now some may have been buybacks, I don't know, but I would definitely check out the regional TB sales for good buys. There are also some folks in Ohio that take OTTB horses, some with injuries, and try to find good homes for them; these folks may be on this list. The adoption fee for these horses is usually around $600/700. Susan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 23:27:40 -0500 From: "slyshot" Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: auction process > 1. How much information is available about the horses being auctioned? Can > they be handled prior to the bidding? My experience is with a resale auction. If the owner is there you can probably get a fair amount of info, altho the accuracy may be questionable. If a dealer has the horse there you must take anything said with two containers of salt. At Eylers you can handle the horses, and ride if appropriate. In the sale area the horses are usually ridden/handled by auction personnel. > Is it common for the owners to be present so you can ask them > questions? Often, but see #1 above. > 2. Is a vet available on-site to make an evaluation of the horse? Is any > form or health certificate provided? There has been a vet there but she is working for the auction house, taking blood samples, etc. Horses must have a current negative Coggins in Maryland. I know the horses are tested for other substances but I don't know if you get a certificate. If you want an honest evaluation, pay your own vet to accompany you. > 3. How is payment made - cash? Money order? Credit card. There were good horses up for auction, esp. hunter types and just plain trail horses. Eyler's had more and more horses going up with minimums on them, but you never knew there was a minimum until the horse was sold/not sold. There are restrictions on trying to deal directly with the owner for a horse, bypassing the auction house. There is no way to warn you just how awful a resale auction can be, and Eyler's doesn't begin to approach New Holland. Don't go alone; take a trusted, horse-knowledgeable friend who can get through to your head while your heart is screaming otherwise. I am still haunted by some of what I saw, in its own way worse than what I have seen at the rescue. Klondike (Cris May) Days End Farm Horse Rescue (MD) http://www.defhr.org ------------------------------ Disclaimer: Please note that none of the information contained in these files is meant to be professional information. Consult your vet, attorney or other professional for their advice.