DISCLAIMER: These posts contain hints, tips and ideas from folks that have had some experiences dealing with this. It is NOT meant to be legal advice here - just related experiences. Please consult with a reputable professional if necessary. Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 00:08:24 +0000 From: Fairwind Subject: EQ-ResQ: Class; ADOPTORS ADOPTORS - how to screen, paperwork, forms and applications involved. Ok guys, as a start our discussion I thought we could get folks to list the Top Ten MOST Important things to look for in screening adoption applicants. Please make your list where the #1 is the MOST important. Since this is intended to be a list that we can further discuss later please limit your response to a brief explanation of each item, say no more than 3 sentences per item. As we get the lists from everyone we will begin the discussion on the topics this list will provide, so please DON’T start responding to someone elses list at this time, PLEASE make your own! -- Beverly Whittington President OHAHS URL http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Valley/2887 ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 00:31:13 EDT Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: Class; ADOPTORS 1. why are you interested in adopting? 2. have you ever owned a horse and do you currently own it and why or why not? 3. what are the signs of colic and what would you do if your horse exhibited them? i think i would start out with these three and then go on to others ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 21:51:39 -0700 From: Pat Calloway Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: Class; ADOPTORS At 12:08 AM 6/22/98 +0000, Fairwind wrote: >ADOPTORS - how to screen, paperwork, forms and applications involved. > >Ok guys, as a start our discussion I thought we could get folks to list >the Top Ten MOST Important things to look for in screening adoption applicants. Please >make your list where the #1 is the MOST important. 1. No criminal background (involving violence particularly) - do background check. 2. Horse knowledge or support people readily available (trainer, experienced parents, etc) and willing to listen to them - NOT a "know it all". 3. Financially aware of the cost to keep a horse and able to meet that cost. 4. Able to meet cost of a serious medical emergency via savings, credit, etc. 5. Has safe environment in which to keep horse whether boarding barn or their own place. 6. Willing to answer questions poised by adoption/placement agency. 7. Able to pay adoption fee, work off fee - does not expect a "free" horse just because the horse was a rescue. 8. Supportive family members - a MUST if the adoptor is a child. (My guess is that most adoption agencies won't adopt to someone under 18 since they can't be legally held to a contract.) Damn - it's HARD to come up with ten, but I figured I'd give it a shot and list what I thought adoption agencies would find important. Will be interesting to see if I'm on target or not. Pat Calloway, Equine Rescue Listowner epona@concentric.net http://pages.prodigy.com/equinerescue/home.htm ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 01:26:45 +0000 From: Fairwind Subject: EQ-ResQ: Class; ADOPTORS Top Ten MOST Important things to look for in screening adoption applicants. These would be on the top of OHAHS list! 1) What is the age and experience level of the intended care provider? 2) What is the Facility available for the care of the horse? 3) Do they understand the costs of horse maintenance, and are they financially able to take on the responsibility of the adoptee? 4) Are they willing to allow the adoption rescue unlimited and unannounced inspections of the animal? 5) What are their expectations as to the use of the horse? 6) Can they provide personal and veterinary references as to their care of current and past animals? 7) Do they have a criminal record? 8) Would they be willing to foster until an animal was approved or became available for their adoption? 9) Do they currently have horses, and heave they ever sold horses, if so why? 10) Have they ever adopted a rescued animal before? From what rescue? Do they still have the animal? -- Beverly Whittington President OHAHS URL http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Valley/2887 ------------------------------------------------------------ From: Imajiner@aol.com Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 05:13:58 EDT Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: Class; ADOPTORS Hummmmm let me see? 1. Is there a safe structure, good fences, no cars or debris in the pasture? 2. Is ther good hay, grain, and watering devices. is the watering devices good past freezing weather? 3. Can they afford this animal? are there other animals, and if so what shape are they in? 4. Is there good forage in the pastures? are there too many weeds on them? are there poisonous weeds in them in heavy numbers? 5. Can I check the references of their farrier, vet, and neighbors? ( in the Vets case are the bills more than 60 days past due?) 6. Can they handle their horses without the horses flinching? Is there a great deal of tail swishing when they pass...are the ears down on the horses after they pass? are the dogs or cats on the property "scitzy" The kids hyperactive and belligerent? 7. Do they know how to handle most equine emergencies...if so can they repeat how they would handle 5 items of "twisted fate" ( colic,founder,dehydration,cast horse syndrome,lacerations) 8. Is the horse being fostered/adopted going to fit the riding needs of the person adopting. do they "click" when the horse is viewed by prospective owner. If a child; Is the horse going to be too much for the experience level..if it's a close call, would they be willing to take lessons? 9. Is a 2 year First Right of Refusal or a 3 yr lease agreement, disagreeable to them? Are unannounced check ups OK? 10. ( I know you guys are gonna laugh, but here goes) Is their vehicle in tatters? or is it clean and serviceable? My view is, if the vehicle gets care and upkeep,,,,so will the horse. whew! I did it. Donna ------------------------------------------------------------ From: BLRYSTROM@aol.com Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 08:01:44 EDT Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: Class; ADOPTORS In a message dated 98-06-22 05:15:18 EDT, you write: << 10. ( I know you guys are gonna laugh, but here goes) Is their vehicle in tatters? or is it clean and serviceable? My view is, if the vehicle gets care and upkeep,,,,so will the horse. >> donna, my car NEVER gets cleaned unless it's absolutely necessary, but my babies are spotless. the problem with me is that i'd rather spend my free time with a living breathing soul rather than a hunk of cold machinery. dawn ------------------------------------------------------------ From: HVIDEO885@aol.com Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 08:30:08 EDT Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: Class; ADOPTORS Since I don't want to ask the same questions as Dawn, how about: 1. Will you be keeping the horse at your place or boarding? 2. What will the horse be used for and how many people will be using him? 3. Do you already have a vet & farrier, or do you need help in locating one? Sharon ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 08:35:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Keri Lynn Basham Subject: EQ-ResQ: Re: Class, adopters Colic, Founder and Saddle Fit are the three horse care things that I insist on any of our adopters knowing. It is amazing how fast a poor fitting saddle will sour a horse and how much feed many people want to give their horses. ------------------------------------------------------------ Mon, 22 Jun 1998 07:54:34 -0600 (MDT) From: Janis.Comstock-Jones@ecr.net Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: Class; ADOPTORS So many good questions so far...I'd add, especially if they are inexperienced, will they be working with a trainer or very experienced friend. Also, I'd tag on to the saddle fit question, do they know how to select and fit a bit. Janis (SPHO--Ohio) http://www.ecr.net/gallifry/spho.htm ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 11:51:48 +0000 From: Fairwind Subject: EQ-ResQ: Class; ADOPTORS Ok gonna try to send this again, obviously didn't get through the first time, may end up with two though! These would be the most important to OHAHS! 1) What is the age and experience level of the intended care provider? 2) What is the Facility available for the care of the horse? 3) Do they understand the costs of horse maintenance, and are they financially able to take on the responsibility of the adoptee? 4) Are they willing to allow the adoption rescue unlimited and unannounced inspections of the animal? 5) What are their expectations as to the use of the horse? 6) Can they provide personal and veterinary references as to their care of current and past animals? 7) Do they have a criminal record? 8) Would they be willing to foster until an animal was approved or became available for their adoption? 9) Do they currently have horses, and heave they ever sold horses, if so why? 10) Have they ever adopted a rescued animal before? From what rescue? Do they still have the animal? -- Beverly Whittington President OHAHS URL http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Valley/2887 ------------------------------------------------------------ From: Imajiner@aol.com Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 14:11:29 EDT Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: Class; ADOPTORS OK guys I'll fess up. My Blazer has fast food trash bags under the seat.....but she runs well and I even put super (prenium) gas in her. But she is kept in good condition. What I was refering to was the people that abuse their cars and toss them away. Now BE Nice! ;-) (VBG) Donna ------------------------------------------------------------ From: ellabellzoo@webtv.net (ANN IRVING) Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: Class; ADOPTORS my poor cars are run to hll. the 2 door cavilier holds 2 bales of hay 500lb of feed 5dogs and this weekend 2 crates of grown geese, boxof ducks 2 watermelon and a grown mohair billy with horns all saved from the sale .(i confess the melons were murdered the next day). we need to ask if contacting neighbors is all right and check annimal control for violations. checking condition of other critters is good as well as fencing but here i have at least 3 animals (resent rescues) that would pervent me from adopting one could get meb arrested. we need to ask about anyting thaat worries us kisses from the zoo ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 11:51:33 -0700 From: Pat Calloway Subject: EQ-ResQ: OFFTOPIC: Cars (Was ADOPTORS) At 05:13 AM 6/22/98 EDT, Imajiner@aol.com wrote: >10. ( I know you guys are gonna laugh, but here goes) Is their vehicle in >tatters? >or is it clean and serviceable? My view is, if the vehicle gets care and >upkeep,,,,so will the horse. > 1984 car in good/excellent repair (just spent waaaay too much on fixing a/c rather than buying a new one ) - needs new slipcover on backseat - with 61k miles. 1983 dog - needs alignment work. Both need baths! ;-> I think Donna does make a good point here, *especially* if they don't already have horses or other animals that you can check out - if a person takes care of what they have, then it's *likely* that they'll take care of newly acquired things/animals too. We live in such a throwaway society today that a lot of times (not always!) it is cheaper/easier to get new than to repair what you have. Sad example is televisions - my little 13 inch set that I'd had for only 3 years went out and would have cost more to repair than to replace! Now it's taking up space in a landfill since even the charities don't want them to sell to someone for parts! Pat Calloway, Equine Rescue Listowner epona@concentric.net http://pages.prodigy.com/equinerescue/home.htm ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 17:11:11 -0700 From: Pat Cavanaugh Subject: EQ-ResQ: class These are all good ideas. 1- Adopters are financilly responsible for providing proper care 2- Adopters shall not transfer animals to another location without notifying the foundation 3-Adopters are responsible as provided by law, for any personal injury, property damage, or death caused by animal in their care and for pursuing animals that escape or stray. 4-Adopters shall make animals available for visits for the FEAF at your convenience upon request. 5-Adopters shall notify FEAF within 7 days of any change of address. 6-Adopters shall notify FEAF within 24 hours of animal's death with explanation of death and Veterinarian certificate. 7-Adoptors shall dispose of remains in accordance with applicable sanitation laws. 8-Adopters shall send copies of annual coggins and veterinarian check to office yearly. 9-If adopted animal does not fit into your routine we will gladly replace it with another one better suited for your needs within 30 days of adoption, the animal must be in the same condition it was one when adopted. They can be no refund of money. these are some of the rules we follow but we have several more of the requirement form, but we are adding a new one. 10-Animal's to be shipped by you from farm are to be shipped in a proper horse trailer, suited to fit the animal. No horse will leave the farm in a trailer too small for them. this is due to seeing horses cramed into small trailers for a long ride. we are always trying to update our guide lines to insure good care for our wards. our applications are 7 pages long so I better quite now. Pat ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 17:46:50 +0000 From: Fairwind Subject: EQ-ResQ: Class; ADOPTORS Ok Guys here are the posts as to the Top Ten MOST Important things to look for in screening adoption applicants NOW the really hard part, Pick the three from this list, or add another if it has come to mind, and elaborate. What specifically you are looking for, what ARE the answers your looking for? AND why? PLEASE MAKE SURE to cut the list, and only resend the questions your answering, this post is LONG enough!!!!! Why are you interested in adopting? Have you ever owned a horse and do you currently own it and why or why not? What are the signs of colic and what would you do if your horse exhibited them? No criminal background (involving violence particularly) - do background check. Horse knowledge or support people readily available (trainer, experienced parents, etc) and willing to listen to them - NOT a "know it all". Financially aware of the cost to keep a horse and able to meet that cost. Able to meet cost of a serious medical emergency via savings, credit, etc. Has safe environment in which to keep horse whether boarding barn or their own place. Willing to answer questions poised by adoption/placement agency. Able to pay adoption fee, work off fee - does not expect a "free" horse just because the horse was a rescue. Supportive family members - a MUST if the adoptor is a child. (My guess is that most adoption agencies won't adopt to someone under 18 since they can't be legally held to a contract.) Is there a safe structure, good fences, no cars or debris in the pasture? Is ther good hay, grain, and watering devices. is the watering devices good past freezing weather? Can they afford this animal? are there other animals, and if so what shape are they in? Is there good forage in the pastures? are there too many weeds on them? are there poisonous weeds in them in heavy numbers? Can I check the references of their farrier, vet, and neighbors? ( in the Vets case are the bills more than 60 days past due?) Can they handle their horses without the horses flinching? Is there a great deal of tail swishing when they pass...are the ears down on the horses after they pass? Are the dogs or cats on the property "scitzy" The kids hyperactive and belligerent? Do they know how to handle most equine emergencies...if so can they repeat how they would handle 5 items of "twisted fate" ( colic,founder,dehydration,cast horse syndrome,lacerations) Is the horse being fostered/adopted going to fit the riding needs of the person adopting. do they "click" when the horse is viewed by prospective owner. If a child; Is the horse going to be too much for the experience level..if it's a close call, would they be willing to take lessons? Is a 2 year First Right of Refusal or a 3 yr lease agreement, disagreeable to them? Are unannounced check ups OK? ( I know you guys are gonna laugh, but here goes) Is their vehicle in tatters? or is it clean and serviceable? My view is, if the vehicle gets care and upkeep,,,,so will the horse. What is the age and experience level of the intended care provider? What is the Facility available for the care of the horse? Do they understand the costs of horse maintenance, and are they financially able to take on the responsibility of the adoptee? Are they willing to allow the adoption rescue unlimited and unannounced inspections of the animal? What are their expectations as to the use of the horse? Can they provide personal and veterinary references as to their care of current and past animals? Do they have a criminal record? Would they be willing to foster until an animal was approved or became available for their adoption? Do they currently have horses, and heave they ever sold horses, if so why? Have they ever adopted a rescued animal before? From what rescue? Do they still have the animal? Will you be keeping the horse at your place or boarding? What will the horse be used for and how many people will be using him? Do you already have a vet & farrier, or do you need help in locating one? Colic, Founder and Saddle Fit are the three horse care things that I insist on any of our adopters knowing. It is amazing how fast a poor fitting saddle will sour a horse and how much feed many people want to give their horses. If they are inexperienced, will they be working with a trainer or very experienced friend. -- Beverly Whittington President OHAHS URL http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Valley/2887 ------------------------------------------------------------ From: Imajiner@aol.com Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 18:50:13 EDT Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: Class; ADOPTORS top 3. OK, that would be safe secure surroundings 2. adequate food hay and water 3. and references that would prove that they have taken good care of animals in the past Donna ------------------------------------------------------------ From: Janis.Comstock-Jones@ecr.net Subject: EQ-ResQ: Class; ADOPTORS My top three are the things I'd want to know before even considering placing a horse with the applicant. I would not do credit and criminal checks or personal and professional references until getting answers to these. I would, however, get permission to do them. FA>Why are you interested in adopting? The answer to this question should include these: FA>What...used for and how many people / expectations as to the use... I think this is the most important question for a potential adoptor to answer. It identifies the some of the most blatent problem people quickly (like, "I want to adopt mares so I can breed really cheap horses so just anyone can afford to own one.") FA>safe environment in which to keep horse whether boarding barn or FA>their own place. I think this should be covered in the site visit and should include asking the applicant about these things while observing the items being described: FA>good fences, no cars or debris in the pasture? / hay, grain, and water past freezing weather?/ good forage in the pastures?/other animals, and if so what FA>shape are they in?/ handle their horses without the horses flinching? (etc.)/ dogs or cats on the property "scitzy"/ kids hyperactive and belligerent?/vehicle in serviceable? That will show their perception of good, clean, and safe while giving the adoption rep a look at the actual facility. FA>Supportive family members - a MUST if the adoptor is a child. I think this is a MUST if the adoptor has any family at all! So many failed adoptions (any species) or rejected purchases are a result of lukewarm or hostile family members. The family should be subject to the same level of scrutiny as the adoptor. If they are not interested but are still supportive, fine. If they are not interested and downright hostile, get the heck out of Dodge. Look at all the horses we've seen for placement on this list alone, "my husband says it's the horse or him." The first group of horses I took in were "my husband is going to take them to the slaughterhouse." That was when Prairie was just down the road from them, and he truly was going to do it. The other things are important, but I see them as "level two" questions. The above three are the big screen with which to sift out the least suitable applicants. Janis (SPHO--Ohio) http://www.ecr.net/gallifry/spho.htm ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 18:24:30 -0500 From: kaecey Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: Class; ADOPTORS qualifying questions to ask Fairwind wrote: > Why are you interested in adopting? > Have you ever owned a horse and do you currently own it and why or why > not? Horse knowledge or support people readily available (trainer, > experienced parents, etc) and willing to listen to them - NOT a "know > it all". Reason for adoption versus purchase on the important market VERY important. The remaining part of the question speaks for itself. If is vital to have a good handle on the adoptors knowledge and capabilities inorder assess if the match can be made. Most times the rescues have more bagage than those animals on the open market. Is the adoptor aware of this and able to deal with the additional problems both financial and emotional? > > > Do you already have a vet & farrier, or do you need help in locating > one? Can I check the references of their farrier, vet, and neighbors? > (in the Vets case are the bills more than 60 days past due?) Can they > provide personal and veterinary references as to their care of current > and past animals? Can they afford this animal? Are there > other animals, and if so what shape are they in? I combined these three together because they are all related and would be good start in determining how deligent the adoptor was relative upkeep plus, if asked slightly differently of the professionals should be able to get an idea how the potential adoptor treats/handles their current animals(could be animals other than equine) > ( I know you guys are gonna laugh, but here goes) Is their vehicle >in tatters? or is it clean and serviceable? My view is, if the vehicle > gets care and upkeep,,,,so will the horse. Do they currently have > horses, and/or have they ever sold horses, if so why? I think Donna has taken enough flak on this one. It seems that a number of us with horses and other animals have a tendency to use out time tneding to the critters rather than the appearance of our vehicles but does it hold true for newbees? Might be an option without vet or farrier recommendations to fall back onto. ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 00:12:46 -0400 Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: Class; ADOPTERS From: lisaviger@juno.com (Lisa A Remi-Viger) I'm not experienced in rescue (except for Sadie) and my only adoption experience has been with Cricket. We do have plans to operate some kind of rescue when we move and have the facilities. We did run into the possibility that we would have to adopt Cricket out to another family (on our own), though, so I had a lot to think about as far as how to screen an adopter (and I also found out I *could* let one go if I had to). Here's my Top Ten: 1. How does every person who will be using or caring for the horse react to it; and how does the horse react to them? Do they "click" and understand each other? Does the person seem to understand how to communicate with the horse? (I think I would want to meet every adopter in person and see them interact with the horse...people can say a lot of things about their experience level, and intentions, but I would want to see it myself) 2. Do they understand the time, effort and expense of caring for a horse and have the ability to pay for that care? And would they be at least partially prepared, financially, for any emergency vet care? 3. Will the adopter agree to a lifetime return of the horse to the program if it can no longer be kept for any reason? 4. Would they provide yearly vet check statements? And give the name of their vet, farrier, and personal references? 5. Would they allow unannounced visits? 6. If they are inexperienced with horses, would they be willing to work with a trainer, instructor or other knowledgable horse person for a certain period of time? 7. What kind of facilities do they plan on keeping the horse in? And are they willing to provide photographs or those facilities? Are they willing to provide at least the minimum standard of facilities as outlined in our adoption rules (including no barbed wire)? 8. What is their feeding plan for the horse? Do they understand feed related problems like colic, founder, etc.? Will there be fresh water available at all times? 9. Do they understand how to choose the right equipment for the horse (everything, including fitting a saddle, bridle, using a longe line, etc.) 10. Are they willing to pay an adoption fee which may be much lower than the price of a horse, but still fairly significant? 11. (Can I add one more?) Is the horse suitable in size and temperament for all those who would riding or working with the horse? Those are basically the same things we agreed to when we adopted Cricket, with the exception of seeing the person (or people) interact with the horse. Personally, after having just one family take a look at Cricket, I would say that is the most important. Cricket took a tremendous dislike to the man. He did things he's never done before, like paw the ground furiously. The man kept grabbing his muzzle, even though it was clear Cricket had a strong negative reaction to it. So, we would not have placed Cricket with this family. Maybe I'm way too picky, but I think all of the above would be important to me if I were placing horses. Lisa Viger Cricket (12 yo STB gelding) and Sadie (20+ ASB mare) "Men have forgotten this truth," said the Fox. "But you must remember. You are responsible, forever, for what you have tamed." ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 09:58:16 +0000 From: Fairwind Subject: EQ-ResQ: CLASS - APOPTors Ok we have covered what you look for in screening adopters, the questions for the applications. WHAT would ABSOLUTELY disqualify someone from placement of an adopted horse? Lets avoid the Barbed Wire issue, tired of beating a dead horse. (PUN intended) -- Beverly Whittington President OHAHS URL http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Valley/2887 ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:04:22 -0700 From: Pat Cavanaugh Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: CLASS - APOPTors > WHAT would ABSOLUTELY disqualify someone > from placement of an adopted horse? Ok I have turned several people down for different reasons 1- Took a drive by application sounded great they had references ok but the house and yard looked like OLD McDonnald farm there was not enough room for a horse let alone pasture. 2- Gentleman trying to go over our head to get a free horse on a re-adoption and giving out stories. 3-Commerical business. these horses are rescued for families not to continue to work for a living. 4- Riding stables (not the kind for lessons) the ones where any one comes in rent's a horse for an hour. 5- And that same old felling we as horse people get when we feel something is wrong. 6- Or they tell you I have enough grass for the horse dont need to grain? these are a few could think of more Pat ------------------------------------------------------------ From: "Monte and Kim Harrison" Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 17:12:32 +0000 Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: CLASS - APOPTors >>>. 6- Or they tell you I have enough grass for the horse dont need to grain?<<< I've got a question about that one. Obviously if this potential adoptee was a 25 y.o. guy with no teeth and 200 lbs underweight I could see this one. So if that is the case, please ignore me. But during the summer my 2 horses are on pasture only. They're both fat and shiny. "healthy as horses" so to speak. They have two 10 acre pastures they are rotated on. I don't know the conditions you speak of in your number 6, but it's worded like maybe you wouldn't adopt to someone that only pasture fed. And, I don't know where you live or what kind of pasture available near you. Kim, Rebel, Roany Arkansas Sapere Aude ------------------------------------------------------------ From: "Deborah Peterson-Lipscomb" Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: CLASS - APOPTors Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 19:14:34 -0500 Bad feeling about them. I watch their body language for little and big lies. studied it in college but there is a great book check Amazon or Barnes and Noble there is probably a good site or two if you search. there is a look (really a non-look to battered women and children I just can't ignore usually the dominating batterer (male and female) speaks for all or you can pick up on the vibes by watching how they react and demand (not ask their family questions/statements) Although I am not an organization I take in as many as I can and find good homes. Deb ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 09:55:27 +0000 From: Fairwind Subject: EQ-ResQ: CLASS; Adoptors We are kinda fizzling out here! Haven't seen contributions from many of the established rescues, come on guys, lets all pitch in to get this information out to those who wanna learn! Next topic, What criteria should be used to establish when a HORSE is ready to be adopted out? For example, in malnourished cases, how far do they have to be on the road to recovery? Completely recovered? Or at what level? How about behavior problems? Or ridability? Hmm must be other criteria? Come on guys, this one is IMPORTANT, so pitch in! Remember if your in this for the horses, we have to place them when THEY are ready too or it WON'T WORK! -- Beverly Whittington President OHAHS URL http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Valley/2887 ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 12:23:41 -0700 Subject: EQ-ResQ: Hello From: thebacksoftrees@juno.com (Theresa M DeCotiis) If I may respond to the post from Fairwind, I think the criteria for adoption in regards to a malnourised horse, would depend on a condition that could be managed by the adoptee. As long as the adoptee was educated on the care of such a case , taking a horse out of a bad enviorment as soon as possible would be good. I would think the same would stand for behavior problems and ridability. You must explain to me if you have people that work with retraining before adoption or what, because I dont know enough about your operation I need to know more before offering advice. So, Iam happy to be here and look forward to learning more. Thanks .........................................Theresa ------------------------------------------------------------ From: "Deborah Peterson-Lipscomb" Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: CLASS - APOPTors Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 19:14:34 -0500 Bad feeling about them. I watch their body language for little and big lies. studied it in college but there is a great book check Amazon or Barnes and Noble there is probably a good site or two if you search. there is a look (really a non-look to battered women and children I just can't ignore usually the dominating batterer (male and female) speaks for all or you can pick up on the vibes by watching how they react and demand (not ask their family questions/statements) Although I am not an organization I take in as many as I can and find good homes. Deb ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 23:46:16 +0000 From: Fairwind Subject: EQ-ResQ: CLASS;ADOPTORS Are their any questions those of you who are currently trying to adopt can think of that should be part of the discussion? And what about the rescues? Any issues you would like to address? -- Beverly Whittington President OHAHS URL http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Valley/2887 ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 21:33:00 -0700 From: Pat Calloway Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: CLASS: ADOPTORS At 11:46 PM 6/24/98 +0000, Fairwind wrote: >Are their any questions those of you whoare currently trying to adopt >can think of that should be part of the discussion? And what about the >rescues? Any issues you would like to address? > Here's a question - I know the ERNI site has some applications and other forms so that rescues can take a look and see what other folks are doing - anybody want to share links to their applications (please don't send an attached file to the list) so that others' can take a look and perhaps get some ideas? Also, how much follow up do you (rescue) folks do? Do you check the horse weekly, monthly, semi-monthly? Phone calls? Visits? Email? All three? Pat Calloway, Equine Rescue Listowner epona@concentric.net http://pages.prodigy.com/equinerescue/home.htm ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 09:20:46 +0000 From: Fairwind Subject: EQ-ResQ: CLASS; ADOPTORS Got a couple of responses privately that I would like to post and get the response of the list. The first is on Questions from potential adoptors. 1. Will the individual from the rescue continue to make site checks after the adoption? If so, for how long? I really hope the rescue continues site checks for quite awhile. After all these horses have been through, it is so important to make sure that they haven't gone from one heartless situation to another bad one. 2. If the adopter is inexperienced, will rescue personnel be available for assistance in answering questions, giving advice? For myself, this is sooo important! The horse's history could include emotional as well as physical trauma that I may not be prepared for. Some of this could surface at a time after adoption and the new owner would be clue less. There is always someone who has an idea of how to handle a situation and what you should do, but the rescue personnel are more suited to assist with this type of development as they probably have experience and/or understand the history of the horse. 3. How does the rescue enforce the right of return of an animal if the new owner should become ill, financially unable to support the animal, etc. Sometimes family members will try to make $$ on anything laying around in the event of the new owner's demise. I would like to be sure that the horse would be returned to the rescue in the event of my inability to take care of the horse or if I should die, even if it is YEARS down the road. The second addresses the horses in the adoption program Horses with poor conformation are prone to injuries. It just seems that the rescue organizations could do better for themselves and the horses to rehab those who have the most going for them for rehab. When I say the most going for them I do necessarily mean those in good flesh. If I had to choose between a rack of bones with good conformation and a gleaming show horse with poor conformation, I would opt for the bones. The costs of rescue may even be less in that one would not have to deal with the additional problems that the poor conformation presents. Any feed back on these two questions? REMEMBER we are all adults and should DISCUSS these issues!!!! Beverly Whittington President OHAHS URL http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Valley/2887 ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 13:38:14 -0700 From: Doug Wyllie Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: CLASS; ADOPTORS > 1. Will the individual from the rescue continue to make site checks > after the adoption? If so, for how long? When our horse was dropped off, the site was inspected and that was the only time they were down to see it although I was in contact with them during the months to follow. This was through the Harness Horse Retirement & Youth Association with Anne McCloskey out of Loganton, PA. She was very helpful! > 2. If the adopter is inexperienced, will rescue personnel be > available for assistance in answering questions, giving advice? My experience with my adoption was that when I did have a question or two they were always as helpful to me as they were able to be via phone. I would like to be sure that the horse would be returned to the rescue in the event of my inability to take care of the horse... this worked out well for me as this is what happened, the horse I was given turned out to be tooooo spunky for me as a beginner so he was sent back to the rescue. This was a poor match but I think they really thought it would work or they would not have let me take him. He ended up with a more experienced person. ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 18:52:16 -0700 From: Gail Garrett Reply-To: whoanellie@earthlink.net Well, here's my two cents on the comments below-- Conformation-What does THAT have to do with RESCUE! This is about a living breathing creature in NEED. The only ones who seem to be able to respond to that need on all levels are the rescues! It's what's on the INSIDE that counts! God don't make no junk. > Horses with poor conformation are prone to injuries. It just seems that > > the rescue organizations could do better for themselves and the horses > to rehab those who have the most going for them for rehab. When I say > the most going for them I do necessarily mean those in good flesh. If I > > had to choose between a rack of bones with good conformation and a > gleaming show horse with poor conformation, I would opt for the bones. > The costs of rescue may even be less in that one would not have to deal > with the additional problems that the poor conformation presents. > -- Gail whoanellie@earthlink.net ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 04:05:53 -0400 Subject: EQ-ResQ: RE: CLASS ADOPTERS From: lisaviger@juno.com (Lisa A Remi-Viger) << I live far from new jersey.Corpus Christi texas.I hate this,he was our pet and now we cant take care of him because hes "useless" my uncle says,he says we dont have room for animals that just sit around?Stupid,huh.Do you know a place where i could adopt another horse,that can be ridden or something>> I think the current question is what would make one turn down an adopter (correct me if I'm wrong). Well, if someone said anything even remotely like the above I'd nix them permanently as an adopter. Just MHO Lisa Viger Cricket (12 yo STB gelding) and Sadie (20+ ASB mare) "Men have forgotten this truth," said the Fox. "But you must remember. You are responsible, forever, for what you have tamed." ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 18:58:05 +0000 From: Fairwind Subject: EQ-ResQ: CLASS;ADOPTIONS Most of the llinks to the Forms for OHAHS adoption, foster, membership, inspection etc... can be reached from this page We check on all adopted horses at least 4 times in the first year. Aplicants are VERY carefully screened, we don't want these horses to be uprooted again! http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Valley/2887/foster_fax.html -- Beverly Whittington President OHAHS URL http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Valley/2887 ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 08:58:36 -0400 From: Cris May To: equinerescue@MyList.net Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: CLASS: ADOPTORS >>> Pat Calloway 06/25 12:33 AM >>> At 11:46 PM 6/24/98 +0000, Fairwind wrote: Also, how much follow up do you (rescue) folks do? Do you check the horse weekly, monthly, semi-monthly? Phone calls? Visits? Email? All three? We check the horse annually, a physical inspection and barn inspection. If we have a feeling (or are sure) things aren't going smoothly, we will do it as often as necessary. The annual inspection is scheduled with less than a week lead time - no one can fatten up a horse or clean a filthy barn in a week. ~Cris May Days End Farm Horse Rescue www.geocities.com/heartland/6768 ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 09:36:02 -0400 From: Cris May To: equinerescue@MyList.net Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: CLASS/Ricky >>> Pat Calloway 06/25 3:48 PM >>> wrote: Folks, ... PLEASE try to restrain yourself from sending or making rude, nasty, mean, etc emails or phone calls to the people involved. Sure, it does make you feel better at the moment, but what if that one email was the straw that broke the camel's back? What if the person with the horse was leaning towards letting someone from the list (or a rescue or wherever) take the horse, but a rude note came and s/he decided, "The hell with those rescue people! They are RUDE and extreme and I'll sell the horse to slaughter before I sell it to one of them." Pat's remarks here are extremely pertinent to our Class discussions. In the course of doing rescue work you will meet lots of folks (and even other rescuers) whose ideas do not match your own, or whose ideas are so diametrically opposed to yours that you would like to string them up by the thumbs (or some other sensitive body part). We must make every effort to always have a pleasant, non-confrontational encounter. It is too easy to mis-read a remark, or to assume that "I'm right and you're not" and alienate the other person. If we do that, we may put horses at even greater risk. The bottom line is that we are here to help horses in need and we may have to bite our tongues from time to time in order to best do so. It does get easier over time to squelch those nasty little comments that come so readily to mind, you just have to repeat in your mind "I'm doing it for the horses". ~Cris May Days End Farm Horse Rescue URL: http://www.geocities.com/heartland/6768 ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 11:23:34 -0400 From: Cris May Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: Class; ADOPTORS >>> Nancy Carville 06/24 4:04 PM >>> How about adding liability insurance for the horse once they own it so you get no repercussions bounced back on you as placement agency if the horse hurts someone. (low cost insurance availible to members of AHSA.) In Maryland I'm covered for liability for injuries caused by my horse under my homeowners insurance policy. This may well apply in other states. I know Days End has several insurance policies but I can't say whether we are covered in the event an adopted horse injures an adopter. I know that the laws of the particular state play a great role in liability issues. Cris May Days End Farm Horse Rescue (Maryland) http://www.geocities.com/heartland/6768 ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 18:27:39 +0000 From: Fairwind Subject: EQ-ResQ: CLASS ADOPTORS wrap up Wrapping up the class on Adoptors, The screening of Adoptors seems to focus mainly on the intended use of the horse, level of knowledge of the potential adoptor and their ability to care for the animal in a safe and secure surrounding. References, body language, No criminal background are things put forward as important to check out. Liability insurance for the horse, financially aware of the cost to keep a horse, willing to answer questions poised by adoption/placement agency, supportive family members and do they know how to handle most equine emergencies being other items of importance in placing adoptive horses. Pre adoptive and after placement site inspections were stressed as important. The list goes on and on, but overall I think it is fair to say that everyone agreed that you can't be too through in your pre placement requirements or follow up! -- Beverly Whittington President OHAHS URL http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Valley/2887 ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 01:52:12 -0700 From: Pat Calloway Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: CLASS ADOPTORS wrap up Thanks for leading this class, Beverly! As I said in my note yesterday, we haven't yet been able to get everything lined up with the folks that were possible for leading a class on grants and on non-profit status, so let's just take the week off since it may be a holiday week for some with US Independence Day on July 4th and we'll start another class on July 6th. Pat Calloway, Equine Rescue Listowner epona@concentric.net (AZ) http://pages.prodigy.com/equinerescue/home.htm ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 10:53:15 -0400 From: Cris May Subject: EQ-ResQ: CLASS-Adoptions I've thought of one more bit of info you may find useful as regards adoptions. I don't know if any of the other organized rescues use this, but it has been helpful for us. A large portion of our adopted horses are kept at boarding facilities. For the past two years Days End has sent a letter to the owner of the boarding facility notifying them that "such&such horse which is being boarded at your facility is the property of Days End blah, blah." The letter also states that we are to be notified if the horse is moved, that we will do an annual inspection of the facilities and animal, and that we must be notified in the event of non-payment of board, and that we will be responsible for the board if the animal is abandoned. Let me know if you would like to see a copy of this letter. Cris May Days End Farm Horse Rescue ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 10:02:43 -0400 From: Cris May Subject: EQ-ResQ: CLASS: Stable Letter Following is the letter Days End Farm (DEFHR) sends to boarding stables where our adopted horses are maintained. I hope this is useful for you. ~Cris May -------------------------- {Date Name & Address} Dear Stable Owner: I am sending this letter to let you know that we have adopted a horse [horse name] to [adopter name], who is currently boarding at your facility. This is to let you know that DEFHR will be inspecting the horse's condition at least once per year. You, as the property owner, will be notified in advance of any pending inspections, although you are not required to be present. I hope that you will, in no way, feel threatened by this process, as we are solely interested in the safety, health and well being of any DEFHR horses. In addition, I would ask that, should any situation arise which you feel may be pertinent to the health, safety or well being of any or all DEFHR horses residing at your stables, that you contact us immediately so that we may assist in the correction of those issues. Specifically, we would like you to notify us of any oustanding fees or charges that are delinquent on the part of [adopter], after 30 days. As [horse] is the property of DEFHR, we would like to prevent any liens or custody battles regarding this animal, and would appreciate the opportunity to assist you with relocating the animal to DEFHR and the collection of debts owed to you. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me at [phone] or by fax at [..]. I have enclosed a copy of the adoption contract signed by [adopter] regarding [horse] to help answer any questions you may have regarding DEFHR and its policies. Should you have any additional questions or concerns, please feel free to contact me at [..]. Thank you, Days End Farm Horse Rescue ------------------------------------------------------------ !