Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 21:48:29 -0700 To: equinerescue@mylist.net From: Pat Calloway Subject: EQ-ResQ: Adoption Workshop Since the 4th of July holiday weekend is pretty much over, thought I'd launch the next workshop! Diane Creek had asked that we do a workshop on adoptions and sent along a few questions to get us started. Here they are: 1. Questions asked of the potential adopters. 2. How do they check out to make sure the adopters are telling the truth? 3. How do rescues handle post adoption welfare checks or do they have them at all? 4. What kinds of forms does everyone use? Would they consider sharing info that's included on those forms? 5. If you deliver a horse and it's a long distance what do you do if the farm doesn't check out o.k.? Do you make the adopter pay transport? 6. Does anyone require pictures of the facilities? --- If you look in the Archives at http://pages.prodigy.com/equinerescue/rescarch.htm, we did discuss this last summer, but there's always new information, new perspectives and new people on board, so it certainly doesn't hurt to talk about it again. --- I'll edit and upload the Volunteer and Fundraising Workshops that we had last month and try to get them up there this week. Just in case anybody was holding his/her breath waiting for 'em! ;-> Pat Calloway, Equine Rescue Listowner epona@concentric.net (AZ) http://pages.prodigy.com/equinerescue/home.htm ============================================================ Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 10:09:35 -0700 To: equinerescue@MyList.net From: Pat Calloway Subject: EQ-ResQ: Adoption Workshop (Repost) Reposting this as there have been no responses and it is kinda relevant ... Any one have any other questions they'd like to ask rescues on how they screen adoptors? How about an answer to a question or two? Or links to your webpage where you have forms? Thanks! At 09:48 PM 7/5/99 -0700, I wrote: >Since the 4th of July holiday weekend is pretty much over, thought I'd launch >the next workshop! > >Diane Creek had asked that we do a workshop on adoptions and sent along a few >questions to get us started. Here they are: > >1. Questions asked of the potential adopters. > >2. How do they check out to make sure the adopters are telling the >truth? > >3. How do rescues handle post adoption welfare checks or do they have >them at all? > >4. What kinds of forms does everyone use? Would they consider sharing >info that's included on those forms? > >5. If you deliver a horse and it's a long distance what do you do if >the farm doesn't check out o.k.? Do you make the adopter pay transport? > >6. Does anyone require pictures of the facilities? > >--- > >If you look in the Archives at >http://pages.prodigy.com/equinerescue/rescarch.htm, we did discuss this last >summer, but there's always new information, new perspectives and new people on >board, so it certainly doesn't hurt to talk about it again. > >--- > >I'll edit and upload the Volunteer and Fundraising Workshops that we had last >month and try to get them up there this week. Just in case anybody was holding >his/her breath waiting for 'em! ;-> ============================================================ To: equinerescue@mylist.net From: Williams Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: Adoption Workshop Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 12:21:48 -0500 > Or links to your webpage where you have forms? Well, our adoption application is on line at http://www.lser.org/adoption.htm. We're so new that we're still learning and revising. > >1. Questions asked of the potential adopters. Well, our application includes questions about number of years of horse experience, how many horses they've owned, how many horses they've sold or given away in the past 5 years, if they've had any horses in their care die in the last 5 years, how often they feed, how often they have farrier work done, who does the feeding. We also ask questions about their facilities like where the horse will stay (pasture or stall), how many other horses are in the pasture, how big the pasture or stall is. We ask if they have other horses if they've been wormed, vaccinated, have current Coggins tests, etc. > >2. How do they check out to make sure the adopters are telling the truth? Well, before we adopt a horse out, we do a site visit. That way, we can verify the information about the facilities, check the health of the other horses, etc. We also ask for a letter of recommendation from a farrier, equine professional, and personal reference about the person's knowledge, health care of animals, and interactions with their animals. We're getting ready to make up a form they can send their references to make it quicker and easier. > >3. How do rescues handle post adoption welfare checks or do they have them at > all? We have one visit at one month after adoption to make sure the horse is where they say he would be, to make sure he's being cared for, and to make sure everyone is getting along. We do another check at six months. If needed, we may do more checks. At one year, we ask for a vet certificate stating the horse has been vaccinated, had a coggins test, been wormed, and is in good heath. At that time, we turn ownership over to the adopter BUT they must sign a contract stating they will not breed or resell the horse. > >5. If you deliver a horse and it's a long distance what do you do if > >the farm doesn't check out o.k.? Do you make the adopter pay transport? > We don't deliver the horses. And we don't let people take a horse until they've checked out. > >6. Does anyone require pictures of the facilities? > We've just started doing that. But we have an inspector who does the preadoption (or prefostering) visit. They're the one to take pictures of fences, shelters, feed, water source, other equines (and a few other which I can't remember off the top of my head). These are kept on file with the adopter's info. -- Jennifer Williams President, Lone Star Equine Rescue - http://www.lser.org/ Editor and Designer, Equine Designs - http://www.equinedesigns.com/ "Close your eyes, let your spirit start to soar. And you'll live as you never lived before. " -From Music of the Night ============================================================ To: equinerescue@mylist.net From: slyshot@mindspring.com Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: Adoption Workshop Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 22:55:14 -0400 We have a questionnaire we use as our initial screen for adopters. It asks things like "how much do you expect to spend on care of this animal in the next year," as well as how much experience the person has, whether its just riding experience or previous ownership. I'll try to get a copy of the form for you to look at. Once that brief process is over and we are certain that the experience level of the adopter matches the horse, the adopter must work with the horse at the rescue, under supervision, on 4 separate occasions. (Note, we don't always insist on 4 visits if the adopter is clearly a very knowledgeable and experienced horse person, but those adopters are the exception, not the norm.) The process of working with the horse is also helpful to us when there are multiple applicants for the same horse. We can determine which would be the best adopter, which doesn't mean the others weren't qualified, just the best horse/adopter match. If the adopter plans to have a trainer work with her and the horse after adoption, the trainer must also come and work with the horse at least once. The adopted horse never leaves our facility until an inspection has been done of the new horse home. If minor changes are needed in fencing or whatever, we will advise the adopter. Generally, those willing to make minor changes are going to provide the best homes anyway. If an adopter balks at making any change the horse is probably not going to leave our farm. We have had 'almost adoptions' where everything seemed okay right up to the inspection and the facility was so inappropriate that the adoption process ended right there. We usually deliver the horse to its new home (but we only do in-state adoptions), and we charge, I believe, $0.50/mile. If for some reason we got the horse to the new home and things were not okay we would simply return to DEF with the horse and the adoption would more than likely not go through. I don't believe we'd charge for 'non-delivery' in this situation. All of our horses are checked annually. We are very up front with adopters that we will do the inspection and that we have the legal right to do so. We also send a letter to boarding facilities where our adopted horses are kept, advising them that DEFHR owns the horse and please let us know if the board bill falls into arears, etc. so we can fix it. We generally do a follow up 3 months after the adoption just to make sure everything is going well, sometimes sooner if we have a funny feeling about things. And a few horses get checked more often than annually. Most adopters are pretty good about cooperating for the inspection. We try to schedule the check within a week after the call, as there isn't a whole lot anyone can fix in a week. And there are a handful of adopters who are just a pain in the b*** and give us a hard time every time they're up for inspection, move the horse without letting us know in advance, and generally behave as though they bought the horse and shouldn't have to deal with us at all. We only get tough when we have to, but all our adoption documentation gives us the absolute legal right to do so. I will try to get some of our forms for you to view/use, but probably not until the weekend. Klondike (Cris May) Days End Farm Horse Rescue (MD) http://www.defhr.org ============================================================ Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 16:56:28 -0700 To: equinerescue@mylist.net From: Pat Calloway Subject: EQ-ResQ: Adoption Workshop Ah - I thought of a question. Where do most of your adoptors get your name/information? On the 'net (via this list, your website, other)? Via an ad in the paper? Word of mouth? Other? Have you ever had a story done on your organization (tv, radio, newspaper, magazine) and if so what was the impact on your rescue? ============================================================ To: equinerescue@mylist.net From: "schrr" Subject: EQ-ResQ: Adoption Workshop Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 17:27:50 -0700 I would have to say first is, word of mouth, by people who have adopted from us, our Vet, animal control officers, and other agency in the State. 2nd would be our web site and 3rd would be our listing in Horseman's Directory and yellow pages. Yes, we have been on TV and in the newspaper. One of our stories went all over the US. The impact was crazy, the phones didn't stop ringing, people where here 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, to look at the half starved horses. Shaking their head, wondering how anybody could do something like "that"! We mailed out a hundred adoption applications when the story of the 23 horses that were rescued in the winter of 1997 went public. I think that was the year I turned completely gray. Finding the right home is very hard. Applications are filled out, checked out, people are interviewed, where the horse is going is checked out, but you still pray and worry every time a horse leaves that this is the right home. We have been blessed, we have never had to take a horse from a adoptive home, we have had to take a horse from a foster home. This foster home had been checked out, everything checked out, the person had even worked at a vet's office as a tech! When we went to check on the condition of the horse after about 3 weeks, the horse had dropped weight and had a very bad rope burn on a back leg from being tethered, we were told. Needless to say, we came back home got the trailer and went straight back to pick up the horse. After all the checking we did on this person, we were not told that this person was manic depressant. This person was a wonderful person as long as this person was taking her medication. SCHRR ============================================================ To: equinerescue@mylist.net From: HVIDEO885@aol.com Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: Adoption Workshop Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 21:50:37 EDT In a message dated 7/9/99 7:48:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, epona@concentric.net writes: << Questions asked of the potential adopters. How do they check out to make sure the adopters are telling the truth? >> We do not get too specific on the application, but rather find out more by casual conversation while doing the site inspection. Thru friendly conversation we find out if they have ever owned horses before, if so what happened to them, and what type of riding they did. Swapping horse stories while inspecting their property gives them the opportunity to do some talking and it is amazing what one can find out that way. Our adoption agreement however is very specific and leaves nothing to the imagination. We do a 30 day recheck, and another in 6 months. There after the inspections are yearly. We do however have the ability to do drive-by's just to make sure the horse is still around and most times the adopter does not even know we have gone by. >> Does anyone require pictures of the facilities? We take a picture of the horse at it's new home with it's new owner, which, if taken correctly, can include what the condition of the facility are at the time of the adoption in the background. If we would ever have to reclaim a horse because of neglect and unsuitable surroundings the picture would be proof of the conditions at the time of adoption. >>How do rescues handle post adoption welfare checks or do they have >>them at all? I am not sure what you mean by this, but we do charge a $10 filing fee for the adoption applications. This fee is not refundable, but may be applied (and usually is) to the adoption fee. If the application was not approved the fee is placed into the office account to help cover office expenses. It also tells us how interested in adopting the potential adopter really is. Sharon ============================================================ To: equinerescue@mylist.net From: HVIDEO885@aol.com Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: Adoption Workshop Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 22:08:55 EDT In a message dated 7/9/99 7:56:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, epona@concentric.net writes: << Have you ever had a story done on your organization (tv, radio, newspaper, magazine) and if so what was the impact on your rescue? >> We have had the local paper do a story on the rescue which made the front page of the sunday paper due to the condition of the horse. We also had a statewide magazine do an article on the rescue. We received several calls from these which were mostly people looking for free or cheap "top quality type" animals. It did get our name out, but more important it brought the abuse these animals suffer to light to many people. We have a meeting (orginazational/volulnteer type) set up for the first week in August. The local paper has a space in the sunday paper where they list functions volunteer groups are having, and when we listed the meeting information they ask if we would mind if they had someone at the meeting as it was something of interest to the community. Of course I said YES! please do. It was because of an article (in a round about way) that 8 acres of land was donated to the rescue. So yes, in our opinion any publicity is worth something. Sharon in PA ============================================================ Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 19:57:23 -0700 To: equinerescue@MyList.net From: Pat Calloway Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: Adoption Workshop At 09:50 PM 7/9/99 -0400, HVIDEO885@aol.com wrote: >>>How do rescues handle post adoption welfare checks or do they have >>>them at all? > >I am not sure what you mean by this, but we do charge a $10 filing fee for >the adoption applications. LOL - those were Diane Creek's questions and what I think she meant by it (correct me if I'm wrong, Diane! ) was checks where an adoption agency/person goes and looks into the welfare of an equine at his/her new home and makes sure the horse is being taken care of properly. > > I am not sure what you mean by this, but we do charge a $10 filing fee for > the adoption applications. This fee is not refundable, but may be applied > (and usually is) to the adoption fee. If the application was not approved the > > fee is placed into the office account to help cover office expenses. It also > > tells us how interested in adopting the potential adopter really is. Filing fees are an interesting area though! How many of you charge a filing fee? How much? Do you find that a lot of people baulk at paying it and do you have to "justify" charging the fee? I imagine it does cut down on window shoppers who aren't really that interested, but "collect" photos and videos of sale horses and other information. ============================================================ To: equinerescue@mylist.net From: Williams Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: Adoption Workshop Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 22:03:42 -0500 Well, we get most of our people over the internet - from our email list (texasrescue@onelist.com) and from our web site (http://www.lser.org). We're still new, though, so our name hasn't gotten out all over the place yet. I am working on that. When we get non profit status, I'm going to hit it hard and get our name in local papers, magazine articles, etc. I will probably start, actually, within a month or so if things go well with this blind horse. He might end up being our 'spokeshorse'. :) We've been mentioned on the news once. That got us a phone call from a guy who wanted a well broke, kid safe horse for free. So, I know someone heard about us - but we couldn't help him (kept him on file, though, in case we can). We also got our best foster home from a horse show we went to, took some rescue horses, and ran the concession stand at. These people found us there, joined, and have been the best. Jennifer ============================================================ To: equinerescue@mylist.net From: Williams Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: Adoption Workshop Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 22:23:14 -0500 > Filing fees are an interesting area though! How many of you charge a filing > fee? How much? Do you find that a lot of people baulk at paying it and do you > have to "justify" charging the fee? We charge a filing fee. For members of our rescue, our fee is $5. For non members, it is $15, but part of this can be applied towards a membership if they desire. Now, we've only taken one adoption application so far - we're that new. She was happy to pay the small fee and even joined the rescue (and volunteered to foster for us). I imagine, though, that some will complain. That's fine - our justification is that we take pictures, have to make phone calls, etc. to verify everything and this helps to offset some of that cost. If we have several people apply for the same horse (hasn't happened right now), we'll keep their applications on file for one year and they won't have to reapply or pay another fee if there's another horse they might like to adopt. -- Jennifer Williams President, Lone Star Equine Rescue - http://www.lser.org/ Editor and Designer, Equine Designs - http://www.equinedesigns.com/ ============================================================ To: equinerescue@mylist.net Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 07:02:55 -0500 From: Diane Creek Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: Adoption Workshop The way I worded my question was kind of confusing. I wanted to know how you check up on the welfare of a horse after they are adopted to make sure thye are o.k. I never thought of $$$$ but what a concept!!! Sorry for the confusion. Diane >>>How do rescues handle post adoption welfare checks or do they have >>>them at all? > >I am not sure what you mean by this, but we do charge a $10 filing fee for >the adoption applications. >>LOL - those were Diane Creek's questions and what I think she meant by it (correct me if I'm wrong, Diane! ) was checks where an adoption agency/person goes and looks into the welfare of an equine at his/her new home and makes sure the horse is being taken care of properly.<<< ============================================================ To: equinerescue@mylist.net From: "Windfield Farm" Subject: Fw: EQ-ResQ: Adoption Workshop Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 12:27:25 -0400 Pat this is corrected...can you please delete the previous version of this? Thanks. N Pat wrote: Anyone else care to >put in their nickel's worth? I know we have more than two people on at list of >450+ that adopt out horses, so c'mon and post your links or answer one or two >questions - you don't have to answer all of them! OK, OK! I'll jump in here. My rescue efforts are a little different from some of the others I've read about so far on this list. The horses I place are almost exclusively racetrack cast-offs that are usually headed for the killer sale dealer when we hear about them. I work with a friend who is a trainer at the local racetrack and he tries to keep aware, as much as he can, of when this is going to happen. Our reputation has been spreading throughout the track in the year that we have been doing this. Some trainers still take the quick & easy way out and will not agree to hang on to the horse for even another week, others are happy that there is another option and will at least give us a chance to see what we can do to place the horse. Some trainers are now to the point where they actually seek out our help. The horses have been placed for exactly the price that the trainer has set for the horse. My time is donated, as is my friend's...the race track end of the rescue effort. My rather sizeable long distance phone bills are also my donation to the cause. When we can, we ask the trainer or owner of the horse to give us some time to find an alternate retirement option for the horse. The horses are generally placed directly from the race track into their new adoptive homes, although from time to time we have had the horses in temporary foster home situations (either at my own farm, or at the farm of some friends of ours). This has usually been only when the horse has had an injury that prevented the horse from being safely hauled long distances immediately. For example, right now, we have a 3 y.o. filly with a fractured knee who is at a foster home for at least four weeks until the vet feels she can withstand the trip from Cleveland to South Carolina, the location of her new adoptive home. The other way in which I think our rescue efforts is different from some others is that only one of our rescues has been adopted in our home state of Ohio. We have had placements in states including Texas, Alabama, South Carolina, Rhode Island, Virginia and Michigan) As to how I screen prospective adoptive homes...I ask a lot of questions via e-mail. I then conduct an phone interview. I do go into the interview with questions that I know I will ask, but it is not a formal interview. I let the other person speak freely and tell me about themselves, their situation, their experience and their goals. The answers I need always come out in the process. I find that my instincts really surface when I do this and I get a strong sense about the people I am talking to. I also ask for both personal and veterinary references. I check those out if the person seems to fit the bill up to that point. I also ask for photographs when we have the time. I am becoming more adamant about that. I have been very fortunate in that every horse we have placed thus far has ended up in excellent hands. But I would like to minimize the potential for an error in judgment on my part as much as I can, and photos seem to be one way to help that. I am happy to say that I keep in touch with all of the adoptive homes (some of these folks have even become long-distance friends!), and have received unsolicited photos of the rescued horses from virtually all of the adoptive homes. We are working on a web page for our adoption effort, and the web page design and hosting of the page is being donated by one of our recent adoptive homes. The transportation of the horse is the responsibility of the adoptive home, although we do help to coordinate the effort and I have spent many hours on the phone trying to find haulers for some of the rescues. Because our rescues tend to be time-sensitive, finding timely transportation for them is sometimes critical. Some of the haulers have come to know us and give us feedback on the adoptive home after they have dropped the horse off. So far, the reports have all been positive. I'm not fooling myself...I know that the number of horses we place (and thankfully we have been able to place every horse that has come to our attention) is only the tip of the iceberg at Thistledown, our local Thoroughbred racetrack. The dealers still pull in to the race track with their big trailers twice a week, on the day before the two "killer auctions" in our area. But at least what we are doing is helping SOME of the horses...though I would like for this rescue effort to grow so we can do even more. That's part of the reason for the development of the web page. I have considered pursuing 501 (c) non-profit status but frankly, I don't think it would help. None of the people we have ever worked with - even those who truly seem to care about the fate of their horses - were the type to donate a horse for the sake of a tax write-off. It is frustrating that there are those individuals involved with horse racing who truly do not care about what happens to the horses in their charge once they have determined that the horse can't make them any more money. These are not horsemen, they are merely greedy opportunists, and there is no way to successfully deal with these people. That is the very, very depressing part of this, in my view. Nanci Shanley ============================================================ To: equinerescue@mylist.net From: CamMalu@aol.com Subject: EQ-ResQ: Adoption Workshop Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 14:22:30 EDT In a message dated 7/11/99 11:29:47 AM Mountain Daylight Time, windfld@gte.net writes: put in their nickel's worth? I know we have more than two people on at list of 450+ that adopt out horses, so c'mon and post your links or answer one or two questions - you don't have to answer all of them! >> Well, I guess I'll jump in too. I wish I had the perfect setup, the perfect answers, the perfect adoption homes. I don't think anyone really does. I try to do what I can and sometimes have to trust my instinct that I am doing the right thing. I have 112 members in my rescue and the rescue is ALL of ours as it is a group effort. We have limited ourselves to donkey and mules as all of our members are donkey or mule owners. As there are so many horse rescues out there we felt we would be better suited to just stick with what we know. Almost all the members are on one of a few donkey and mule lists. We all do what we can with some members able to transport, some to adopt, some to overnight people and/or animals and some people able to do it all. All funds come out of our own pockets but we have received some donations which help. We are not a 501 and are not going to apply. Most of us know each other pretty well through our contact over the years through the lists and as you all know you can get to know a lot about people in that length of time. Some of us have met in person and we all care enough about these wonderful creatures to try to learn more by joining these lists. Quite a few of us are also on a donkey photo list so have "seen" each other and each other's animals and set up. We sure don't have a perfect rescue but we do what we can. I am also a member of a local mule and donkey club here in New Mexico which is a large group so have additional contacts and homes through this club. The local vets know about the rescue and I have lately been posting flyers in the feed stores hoping for more volunteers or giving people who no longer want their animals a chance to find a good home without taking them to the auctions. I have never had a problem finding a home for an animal and in fact have a waiting list. My problem is deciding who gets what donkey. I try to place them as close to where they are found first but can certainly move them out also. The adopter pays only for shots, coggins (if going out of state), maybe a farrier bill and a vet bill for gelding if necessary. All animals are gelded immediately - at least when I get them they are. Hope this helps any of you. We do have a web site also (not up to date - shame on me) Camilla in Los Lunas, New Mexico ============================================================ To: equinerescue@mylist.net From: slyshot@mindspring.com Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: Adoption Workshop Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 20:25:23 -0400 > Where do most of your adoptors get your >name/information? On the 'net (via this list, your website, other)? Via an ad >in the paper? Word of mouth? Other? I don't know the answer to this, or even if we've ever studied where our adopters come from. We run monthly ads in the state-wide horse magazine, as well as what's on the website. >Have you ever had a story done on your organization (tv, radio, newspaper, >magazine) and if so what was the impact on your rescue? Yes, all of the above. Every time a story is done it increases the number of people volunteering and the donations we receive. The increase in volunteers/donations usually lasts for about a month after the story airs/is published. Not that those people go away, just that the increased interest tapers off. TV coverage is a double bonus for both us and the TV station. The viewing public really responds to to these stories, which increases not only interest in our org. but also the TV station's ratings. Klondike (Cris May) Days End Farm Horse Rescue (MD) http://www.defhr.org ============================================================ To: equinerescue@mylist.net From: slyshot@mindspring.com Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: Adoption Workshop Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 20:34:43 -0400 >>>Filing fees are an interesting area though! How many of you charge a filing fee? How much? Do you find that a lot of people baulk at paying it and do you have to "justify" charging the fee? I imagine it does cut down on window shoppers who aren't really thatinterested, but "collect" photos and videos of sale horses and other information. <<< Well, after Sharon's suggestion, we're going to try the $10 application fee, starting yesterday! We do get a lot of window-shoppers, especially if the seizure has generated press coverage and there are some really nice horses involved, but if rehab (and court) takes a while, all those eager-beavers are gone by the time the horse is adoption-ready. We don't provide photos or videos, but we are in a small state and only adopt in-state. Klondike (Cris May) Days End Farm Horse Rescue (MD) http://www.defhr.org ============================================================ To: equinerescue@mylist.net From: jaci_ackerman@juno.com Subject: Re: EQ-ResQ: Adoption Workshop Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 04:55:15 -0700 I've been away on vacation, and have over 200 e-mails to get through, but you can see NCERL's adoption application (as well as the adoption contract) at our web page. I believe it is modeled after the ERL's form. Jacalyn Ackerman, jaci_ackerman@juno.com NC Equine Rescue League http://members.aol.com/ncerl ============================================================